My Myrtle Beach Experience ... What has been yours?

[Brent Hutto]

A.G. you're missing my point. Volume does not matter to me. The 10th or 100th golf course has zero value beyond that of the 2nd or 3rd really good one. So you're right, there are more courses in a 40-mile diameter circle in Myrtle Beach than almost any place in the world. About 90% of which are carts-only, slow-play, boring, generic golf courses of zero value to me personally.

If I were going to MB next weekend, for starters I'd stay either way down south or way north. Just to avoid the total crapfast in the middle section (not talking golf, talking tacky tourist-trap stuff). So I'd make a couple tee times at some of the IMO good, walking courses and I'd have a nice time. The other how-many-ever courses would not impinge on me positively or negatively. In fact, if there were no other courses at all except the couple I play that's fine too.

I think it's your bar that's rather high. If you limit consideration to just places with 80+ golf courses then you've just eliminated 99.99% of the golf in the world for no good reason at all. How many courses can you play in a week?

As I said, my criterion is "two or three good golf courses worth playing" and I can name plenty of such places. The fact they don't have dozens of other courses (that I wouldn't want to play) a stone's throw away is just trivia. Why does it matter? To anyone?

[Jud_T]

Don't get me wrong.  3 Nights, 3 rounds with breakfast, lunch, drinks, range balls and carts at the Legends starting at $416 is one of the best golf deals on the planet.  I'd happily play Heritage and TPC Myrtle again.  I don't get the semi-chub that many here do over Strantz courses so that puts a bit of a damper on it for me personally, but Myrtle is fantastic value.  I just feel it's grade inflation to say that the golf is fantastic.  I haven't played 'em all but I wouldn't be shocked if there isn't a 7 on the entire Strand in some eyes.

[Bruce Katona]

Like Jeff Brauer, I spent a lot of time in MB, flying back & forth for business (golf related - our company was looking at acquiring assets in the MB market). This was 10 years ago when MB was boasting more then 110 courses.  the problem is the public was playing about the same 4.0 million rounds annually and most course below the top 20 were all fighting for the samw customers.

At 100 courses, each asset is averaging 40,000 rounds annually (yes some get more, some less).  There are more than enough choices for anyone looking for a golf holiday to select, which is the point.  Golf was built as an amenity to fill hotel rooms during the non-peak summer resort season, thus spawning two secondary high rate hotel room seasons - Spring & Fall golf.

Playing during non-peak times (Jan/Feb - the weather can be great) or from Nov 15 - Dec 15 (after hurricaine season) you certainly can get around quickly, though you may eb challanged to get in 36 holes as daylight is at a premium those times of year.

[Carl Rogers]

There were over 4,000,000 rounds played on the Grand Strand courses last year.
They must be doing something right!

As a family destination & price point, it might be unrivaled.  The family can go to the beach, then try some miniature golf (many many options), go shopping in a multitude of outlet stores and then a million places to eat.

[A.G._Crockett]

A.G. you're missing my point. Volume does not matter to me. The 10th or 100th golf course has zero value beyond that of the 2nd or 3rd really good one. So you're right, there are more courses in a 40-mile diameter circle in Myrtle Beach than almost any place in the world. About 90% of which are carts-only, slow-play, boring, generic golf courses of zero value to me personally.

If I were going to MB next weekend, for starters I'd stay either way down south or way north. Just to avoid the total crapfast in the middle section (not talking golf, talking tacky tourist-trap stuff). So I'd make a couple tee times at some of the IMO good, walking courses and I'd have a nice time. The other how-many-ever courses would not impinge on me positively or negatively. In fact, if there were no other courses at all except the couple I play that's fine too.

I think it's your bar that's rather high. If you limit consideration to just places with 80+ golf courses then you've just eliminated 99.99% of the golf in the world for no good reason at all. How many courses can you play in a week?

As I said, my criterion is "two or three good golf courses worth playing" and I can name plenty of such places. The fact they don't have dozens of other courses (that I wouldn't want to play) a stone's throw away is just trivia. Why does it matter? To anyone?

Brent,
You miss MY point.  I never referred to 80+ courses, at MB or anywhere else.

What I referred to was the fact that there are 15 or so affordable top tier public access courses in a 50 mile area, and that I don't know of another place comparable in that regard in the country.  No one has yet offered another candidate, BTW.

Are there mediocre courses also in the 50 mile area?  Of course, just as there are mediocre courses within 50 miles of St. Andrews or Bandon.  That's irrelevant.

As to the walking issue, we're stuck with that.  I walk almost all of my rounds, too, and at MB, like most resorts, the need for a revenue stream doesn't allow that.  I'm over it, you aren't.  But in any event, that is a separate issue from the quality of the available GCA.

[A.G._Crockett]

I just feel it's grade inflation to say that the golf is fantastic.  I haven't played 'em all but I wouldn't be shocked if there isn't a 7 on the entire Strand in some eyes.

Jud T,
I'm not sure who described MB golf as "fantastic", but whatever definition one uses would have to made clear whether you were referring to the AVERAGE grade of the 80+ courses, or the grades of the 15 or so best, which is what I was referencing. 

As to 7's on the Doak Scale, he says a 7 is "An excellent course, worth checking out if you get anywhere within 100 miles. You can expect to find soundly designed, interesting holes, good course conditioning and a pretty setting, if not necessarily anything unique to the world of golf."

IMO, EVERY course I mentioned several posts back reaches that level, plus they are affordable public access, which was my point.  That is a unique number as far as I know.  In fact, given that I listed ONLY the Golfweek-ranked courses for the Carolinas, I think you could make the case that most if not all of the courses I referenced are 8's on the DS; i.e., "One of the very best courses in its region (although there are more 8s in some places, and none in others), and worth a special trip to see."

[Michael Whitaker]

A.G. you're missing my point. Volume does not matter to me. The 10th or 100th golf course has zero value beyond that of the 2nd or 3rd really good one. So you're right, there are more courses in a 40-mile diameter circle in Myrtle Beach than almost any place in the world. About 90% of which are carts-only, slow-play, boring, generic golf courses of zero value to me personally.

If I were going to MB next weekend, for starters I'd stay either way down south or way north. Just to avoid the total crapfast in the middle section (not talking golf, talking tacky tourist-trap stuff). So I'd make a couple tee times at some of the IMO good, walking courses and I'd have a nice time. The other how-many-ever courses would not impinge on me positively or negatively. In fact, if there were no other courses at all except the couple I play that's fine too.

I think it's your bar that's rather high. If you limit consideration to just places with 80+ golf courses then you've just eliminated 99.99% of the golf in the world for no good reason at all. How many courses can you play in a week?

As I said, my criterion is "two or three good golf courses worth playing" and I can name plenty of such places. The fact they don't have dozens of other courses (that I wouldn't want to play) a stone's throw away is just trivia. Why does it matter? To anyone?

Brent - I love ya, man... but, YOU miss AG's point entirely! No where else on the planet (and I've seen a LOT of the planet) can you find a group of public access courses as enjoyable as AG's list within the same radius. For guys wanting to go on an intense golf buddy trip at a great value in the Spring or Fall it's about as good as it gets... but, yes, the courses are packed and the golf is slow. That's the nature of supply and demand. The rest of the year golf is very pleasant and so inexpensive it is almost silly. You can book a three round-two night package with Caledonia/True Blue this summer for $299! Are you kidding me!!! Two nights in a nice condo and three rounds of golf on two quality courses for $299!!!!!!! I can assure you that three of my Greenville friends and I will take advantage of that offer this summer and have one Hell of a great weekend. And, guess what? We won't see any of the "tacky tourist" stuff that you referenced, and we will be able to walk every round and carry our bag! How about them apples!!! And, we will eat some of the best seafood on the eastern seaboard... local SC shrimp and grouper!!! WOW! What's not to like??? Match that ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET for $300!!!!!!!!!

[Eric Smith]

Mike,

I'd do that package all summer long if I lived closer. Those two courses and the accoms you hooked us up with in February are going to be VERY difficult to beat when it comes to value for your money. I'm crazy about the place!

[Michael Whitaker]

Mike,

I'd do that package all summer long if I lived closer. Those two courses and the accoms you hooked us up with in February are going to be VERY difficult to beat when it comes to value for your money. I'm crazy about the place!

And people ask me why I don't spend 5 thousand dollars a year on a national membership somewhere???   Think about this... I could join Caledonia/True Blue for $1800 per year and pay $25 when I play... and. walk every round if I want!!! What do you think I'm going to do when I decide to live at my beach house four or five months of the year?

[A.G._Crockett]

A.G. you're missing my point. Volume does not matter to me. The 10th or 100th golf course has zero value beyond that of the 2nd or 3rd really good one. So you're right, there are more courses in a 40-mile diameter circle in Myrtle Beach than almost any place in the world. About 90% of which are carts-only, slow-play, boring, generic golf courses of zero value to me personally.

If I were going to MB next weekend, for starters I'd stay either way down south or way north. Just to avoid the total crapfast in the middle section (not talking golf, talking tacky tourist-trap stuff). So I'd make a couple tee times at some of the IMO good, walking courses and I'd have a nice time. The other how-many-ever courses would not impinge on me positively or negatively. In fact, if there were no other courses at all except the couple I play that's fine too.

I think it's your bar that's rather high. If you limit consideration to just places with 80+ golf courses then you've just eliminated 99.99% of the golf in the world for no good reason at all. How many courses can you play in a week?

As I said, my criterion is "two or three good golf courses worth playing" and I can name plenty of such places. The fact they don't have dozens of other courses (that I wouldn't want to play) a stone's throw away is just trivia. Why does it matter? To anyone?

Brent - I love ya, man... but, YOU miss AG's point entirely! No where else on the planet (and I've seen a LOT of the planet) can you find a group of public access courses as enjoyable as AG's list within the same radius. For guys wanting to go on an intense golf buddy trip at a great value in the Spring or Fall it's about as good as it gets... but, yes, the courses are packed and the golf is slow. That's the nature of supply and demand. The rest of the year golf is very pleasant and so inexpensive it is almost silly. You can book a three round-two night package with Caledonia/True Blue this summer for $299! Are you kidding me!!! Two nights in a nice condo and three rounds of golf on two quality courses for $299!!!!!!! I can assure you that three of my Greenville friends and I will take advantage of that offer this summer and have one Hell of a great weekend. And, guess what? We won't see any of the "tacky tourist" stuff that you referenced, and we will be able to walk every round and carry our bag! How about them apples!!! And, we will eat some of the best seafood on the eastern seaboard... local SC shrimp and grouper!!! WOW! What's not to like??? Match that ANYWHERE ON THE PLANET for $300!!!!!!!!!

Michael,
When I go to MB, always in July, rates are crazy low AND there are all sorts of multi-round package deals, which I know you know! We play Caledonia and TB in a great 36 hole day, and play one or more of the other courses I referenced each day.

I usually come home with 8 or 9 rounds played, with every one of them on a course that is considered superior by others far more qualified to make that judgment than I, for a average greens fee of less than $50.  

For that fee, I see great golf courses that are in good to excellent condition (given that it is July in the SE) and I never play a round that takes more than 4 hours, 30 minutes.  In the afternoons it is even cheaper, and play is even faster.

Same question, repeated yet again:  Where else in the US is there a comparable scenario?  Not better, not as good; just comparable?  I ask this every time MB golf comes up on this board, and there has yet to be an answer or even a suggestion.

(BTW, going to ANY golf resort at the peak season and then complaining about either rates or crowds is as silly as going to a college football game in a small college town and then bitching about the traffic leaving the game.  You ARE the traffic, and what did you expect anyway?)

[Eric Smith]

What do you think I'm going to do when I decide to live at my beach house four or five months of the year?

I'd try to tend bar part time at the P.I.T.

[Tim_Weiman]

Tim Gavrich,

I guess I am your typical GCAer in that MB has never really been high on my list of favorite golf destinations.

But, when it comes to great posts, yours was one of the very best. Thanks for the entertaining reality check!

[Jud_T]

I think you could make the case that most if not all of the courses I referenced are 8's on the DS; i.e., "One of the very best courses in its region (although there are more 8s in some places, AND NONE IN OTHERS), and worth a special trip to see."

Can I please get a jug of the moonshine you guys are swilling down there?  


grade inflation
noun Education .
1.  the awarding of higher grades than students deserve either to maintain a school's academic reputation or as a result of diminished teacher expectations.
2.  a rise in the average grade given to students.

[A.G._Crockett]

I think you could make the case that most if not all of the courses I referenced are 8's on the DS; i.e., "One of the very best courses in its region (although there are more 8s in some places, AND NONE IN OTHERS), and worth a special trip to see."

Can I please get a jug of the moonshine you guys are swilling down there?  


grade inflation
noun Education .
1.  the awarding of higher grades than students deserve either to maintain a school's academic reputation or as a result of diminished teacher expectations.
2.  a rise in the average grade given to students.

Jud T
Golfweek takes care of the "and none in others" with smaller lists in some states than others.  But if your intention is to say that about the Carolinas, then you are truly, truly a GCA snob and you and I have zero to talk about.  There is pretty good public access golf in the Carolinas, I think, and fully half of the courses listed are on the MB strand.  But you are entitled to your opinion on that.

So same question, asked over and over, still no answer from you or anybody else.

Can you name a place with as many public access courses highly ranked by Golfweek (or ANY other publication) in their region in a 50 mile straight line?  Go ahead.  Name just one.

I'd also remind you that Doak says the average golf course is a 3.

[Jud_T]

I'd also remind you that Doak says the average golf course is a 3.

EXACTLY.  There is no shame whatsoever in a bunch of 4's, 5's and 6's.  Taking the best of a mediocre crop and saying they are all 7's and 8's by default, however, is another matter entirely.  Is there a higher concentration of 3's, 4's and 5's anywhere?  Probably not.  Many of us seek bigger game however.  And as mentioned earlier, a couple of sixes and sevens, or even one 8 is preferable to some.

[A.G._Crockett]

I'd also remind you that Doak says the average golf course is a 3.

EXACTLY.  There is no shame whatsoever in a bunch of 4's, 5's and 6's.  Taking the best of a mediocre crop and saying they are all 7's and 8's by default, however, is another matter entirely.  Is there a higher concentration of 3's, 4's and 5's anywhere?  Probably not.  Many of us seek bigger game however.  And as mentioned earlier, a couple of sixes and sevens, or even one 8 is preferable to some.

Jud T,

If you can stop patting yourself on the back for a moment ("Many of us seek bigger game, however."  I mean, c'mon; next you'll say "do the heavy lifting" and start channeling Matt Ward!) I'd like you to reconsider your last post.  Carefully...

As to the Doak Scale stuff, even if you like the scale (which I don't, btw) you are only guessing as to the rankings anyway.  None of the NC courses in the Golfweek list that I referenced are even in the Confidential Guide, and the only SC courses that are there are The Dunes (7), Legends Heathland (6), and Tidewater (6).  Bottom line is that you don't know the Doak Scale ranking for almost 75% of the courses Golfweek ranks.

That's 3 of 11 that you DO know if you're keeping score at home; not a great sample size, BUT those three are actually "a couple of sixes and sevens...".  That means that if there is just one 8 among the others (and I think Caledonia is that course, btw, but that's just me and Golfweek, which has it as the #128 best modern, public or private) then MB meets YOUR criteria as being preferable!

So maybe you could FedEx me a jug of what YOU are drinking.  It apparently alters reality much more than what I'm sippin'...

[Jud_T]

I'm willing to wager a fair amount that none of them will be an 8 in the new CG and more of them are 5's or 6's than 7's.

[Bart Bradley]

AG:

I actually supported you earlier in the thread.  But I cannot support your latest assertion that the "most of the courses" you listed could be considered a Doak 8.  Doak 8s and above are Top 100 in the World.  None of the Myrtle Beach courses rise to that level, IMO.  There are perhaps one or two 7s, but the majority of the courses you listed are 5s and 6s.  No shame in that.   A Doak 6 is a good course.

Jud is almost certainly correct that not one of the MB courses will be graded an 8 in the next CG.  Examples of 8s are Cruden Bay, Carnoustie, N. Berwick West, Prestwick, TPC Sawgrass, Yale.  Tom only gave 8 public US courses a score of 8 or higher in the last guide.  I don't think that any of the Myrtle Beach courses are among the best 10 public US courses or truthfully even close.

Just my opinion.

Bart

[A.G._Crockett]

AG:

I actually supported you earlier in the thread.  But I cannot support your latest assertion that the "most of the courses" you listed could be considered a Doak 8.  Doak 8s and above are Top 100 in the World.  None of the Myrtle Beach courses rise to that level, IMO.  There are perhaps one or two 7s, but the majority of the courses you listed are 5s and 6s.  No shame in that.   A Doak 6 is a good course.

Jud is almost certainly correct that not one of the MB courses will be graded an 8 in the next CG.  Examples of 8s are Cruden Bay, Carnoustie, N. Berwick West, Prestwick, TPC Sawgrass, Yale.  Tom only gave 8 public US courses a score of 8 or higher in the last guide.  I don't think that any of the Myrtle Beach courses are among the best 10 public US courses or truthfully even close.

Just my opinion.

Bart

And that is precisely one of the major problems with the Doak Scale, IMO.  The description of an 8 that the CG gives and actual rankings of 8's do NOT match.  I don't like the scale, and never have, but that's another argument, and I didn't introduce the Doak Scale into this discussion anyway.  I referenced the Golfweek state-by-state rankings only.

But all of this is beside the point, and I'll happily retract my statement that some or all of the courses listed in Golfweek are 8's by Doak's own definition.  Just give them 6 or 7, like the three listed.  I still don't know of anywhere else in the country where you can find that concentration of 6's and 7's that are PUBLIC ACCESS and at AFFORDABLE PRICES within 50 miles, and 50 miles of easy driving at that.

[Brent Hutto]

Not wishing to gang up on friend A.G. my inclincation is to agree there is a larger number of accessible fairly-to-very good golf courses in that 50-mile stretch than anywhere else I can think of.

My only quibble is the one I mentioned earlier, it's hard for a given visitor to experience much benefit from the 4th or 6th or dozenth Doak 5, 6, 7 course in a fairly small area. Although for people like Tim and Mike who live there or spend much of the year there it's an awesome thing I'm sure.

Temper my "quibble" with the fact that I'm a person perfectly happy to find one or two golf courses I really like and play them five or ten or a hundred times. I always have to caveat my pronouncements because I realize for most people, being able to make multiple vists to the Grand Strand and play a couple different good courses each visit is a plus. I tend to just return to the ones I've played before. Hence my lack of appreciation for sheer numbers of options.

[Brad Wilbur]

I think Myrtle Beach is a unique golf experience.  When you combine very good golf with pretty good eating, excellent beaches, and lots of golf stores, the cumulative experience is positive.  Does the golf compare to Bandon?  Not really, but True Blue is somewhere on my list of favorite courses.  Plus, once you're done playing, there are obviously more activities.  I've stayed at Litchfield Beach three times, in condos that overlook the ocean.  Costs for accomodations are fractions of what an ocean view suite elsewhere would be.  I think it just proves that there is room for varying golf destinations.  

[Brad Tufts]

I think the bottom line with MB is that golf is part of the culture, which has to attract anyone that loves the game.

I have only been to a few places where I felt I could open my hotel room door, roll a used titleist down the hallway, and all the doors would fly open and guys would fight for the ball...

[Bill Brightly]

 I can assure you that three of my Greenville friends and I will take advantage of that offer this summer and have one Hell of a great weekend. And, guess what? We won't see any of the "tacky tourist" stuff that you referenced, and we will be able to walk every round and carry our bag!

Hmmm, can you look into a nice pull cart at some point?

[Michael Whitaker]

 I can assure you that three of my Greenville friends and I will take advantage of that offer this summer and have one Hell of a great weekend. And, guess what? We won't see any of the "tacky tourist" stuff that you referenced, and we will be able to walk every round and carry our bag!

Hmmm, can you look into a nice pull cart at some point?

I don't get your point. What am I missing?

[Sean_A]

Not to beat up on poor ole AG, but 7s & 8s seem to be as common as hackers in MB.  I am not buying that proposition.  I have never had much inclination to visit MB because like Brent states, what do I care about 10, 20 or 50 courses when all I need is a few?  So the depth (if indeed these courses really are that good) doesn't impress me even if AG's assertion is correct - which I have no reason to doubt.  There is a small handful of courses I would like to see there and maybe another small handful if it was very convenient while in the area. 

Again, its the area which doesn't attract me for a holiday. If I am going to cross an ocean, I gotta get more than good public golf out of it.  If MB was a comfortable drive away that is another matter, but to get on a plane specifically for MB is not likely in my future. Although, I could see sneaking up from Charleston or down from NC for a few days if the right offer came along. 

Ciao