News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gamechangers
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2013, 09:46:19 AM »
As mentioned above, C.B. Macdonald was a huge gamechanger. The course he built at NGLA not only blew away everything on the ground in the U.S., by studying and copying classic features and then building 18 world class holes, he changed the game. (And then he boldly told the world that he changed the game...) As Bahto wrote, even the classic course in the UK could not claim 18 great holes.

When you couple his design of NGLA with the advancement in turfgrass that he spearheaded, the effect of NGLA had to be dramatic, at least in the US. I try to envision what it must have been like in the time frame 1910-1928. Business boomed, major cities expanded, and men with great wealth decided that many new golf courses had to be built. Macdonald was naturally in demand but there were also many other architects. So while Flynn, Tilly, Ross, Mackenzie and others certainly built in a far different style than Macdonald, the course on the ground at NGLA had to be a HUGE motivating factor. I imagine these guys were sick and tired hearing about how great NGLA was, and set out to build equally great courses, and probably had to assure the owners that they could do this before securing the contract. Tilly and those guys simply HAD to hone their craft. That is what I call a "gamechanger."
« Last Edit: May 08, 2013, 09:50:13 AM by Bill Brightly »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Gamechangers
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2013, 10:08:58 AM »
Nearly all of the "game changers" listed above have earlier precedents that just didn't attract the same level of attention, and are lost in 20/20 hindsight.

For example, minimalism. 
Coore and Crenshaw built Barton Creek and then Kapalua prior to Sand Hills ... Barton Creek was very minimalist but generally dismissed as being too dull or too tricky because of its fallaway greens. 

High Pointe got a bit of praise but certainly didn't cause anyone else to say they were a minimalist. 

In fact, the term minimalism came from a Ron Whitten article in GOLF WORLD c. 1994, where he talked about Sand Hills under construction ... the cover photo was of Stonewall (the original course). 

Still, I would say it wasn't until the success of Bandon Dunes that every other architect started talking about how they were a minimalist, or about how it wasn't anything new and that's how most architects always had to work because of budgets, etc. 

And, really, minimalism WASN'T anything new ... we don't do anything different than Alister MacKenzie did, we just went back to that approach after everyone else had abandoned it.

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gamechangers
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2013, 11:27:29 AM »
  In fact, the term minimalism came from a Ron Whitten article in GOLF WORLD c. 1994,

Did he ever define the term?
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Gamechangers
« Reply #28 on: May 08, 2013, 12:22:10 PM »
  In fact, the term minimalism came from a Ron Whitten article in GOLF WORLD c. 1994,

Did he ever define the term?

No, but I got a chuckle that the cover photo was of the 8th hole at Stonewall, where we had to move as much dirt as I'd ever moved to build a hole up to that time.  So it must not have meant "no earthmoving".

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gamechangers
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2013, 01:45:32 PM »
Sean,

I wouldn't call Spion Kop a freak hole but I would say that it was a very specific type of plateau hole. Maybe Colt didn't do Spion Kops but the fact that others did, and also other types of plateau greens suggest to me that Colt can't really take the credit for plateau greens. As I say, if I was to nominate Colt as a game changer, and I probably would, I would suggest it was for the overall quality of his courses rather than specifics.

However if you pushed me to name one aspect of his design that made him stand out I would suggest his use of diagonals such as echelon bunkers and greens running at an angle to line of play.

Niall


Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gamechangers
« Reply #30 on: May 08, 2013, 02:09:00 PM »
Game changers...

Could it be much of this lies with changes over time in equipment?

Karsten Solheim, etc - perimerter weigheted clubs limiting shotmaking?
Wally Uihlein, etc - balls that spin less and go far?
Ely Callaway, etc - drivers that hit the ball a mile?
Tiger Woods, etc - how many wonderful courses have been "Tigerproofed"?  Adding length.
Rainbird, etc - irrigation, grooming and expectations have gone crazy.
     ...among others

Put them all together...and viola!   ::)

In the last 20-30 years, all of the above have driven the arms race for longer courses, which obviously and naturally affected design.  With these advancements, many great courses cannot be considered for Majors...simply due to length.  Kind of like driving a 500Hp car on a gravel road.

Fact is, the vast majority of those who play have plenty of course at 6,500ish yards.  Yet, we seldom see a new course at less than 7,000 yards. 

Most here adore the old classics, and a good many of these aren't long.  Coincidence?   ;)

Niall C

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gamechangers
« Reply #31 on: May 08, 2013, 02:26:25 PM »
Chris

While there never was the term what about all the courses that were Jack-proofed, or before that Sneed-proofed, or whoever the big hitter was before that. Basically, Tiger might have gave his name to lengthening and hardening of courses, but that was happening long before Tiger came along.

Niall

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gamechangers
« Reply #32 on: May 08, 2013, 02:34:03 PM »
Chris

While there never was the term what about all the courses that were Jack-proofed, or before that Sneed-proofed, or whoever the big hitter was before that. Basically, Tiger might have gave his name to lengthening and hardening of courses, but that was happening long before Tiger came along.

Niall

+1

Tiger just happened to come along about the same time as the Pro V 1. And he happened to win a few Masters before they decided to add some new back tees. And Tiger-proof just happens to be a really catchy phrase. But it would have happened just the same without Tiger Woods.

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gamechangers
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2013, 03:23:58 PM »
Robert Patterson - gutta percha ball
Coburn Haskell - new generation ball
Not sure who - inventor of the wooden golf tee
Not sure who - permanent piped irrigation systems
Not sure who - first to use bunker rakes
Not sure who - steel golf shafts
Not sure who - hand pushed greens mower
Not sure who - ride on greens mower
Spalding - sale of matched sets of irons
Gene Sarazen - SW - made bunkers less of a hazard
Not sure who - changeable metal spikes in golf shoes
either Stan Thompson - mass production of the Ginty or Tom Crow - early generation Cobra bafflers
Not sure who - inventor of the rubber golf grip
Not sure who - inventor of the waterproof golf shoe (not the horrid moulded rubber ones!)
Not sure who - worldwide adoption of the of the 1.68 golf ball
Not sure who - the scarifier/verticutter etc
WL Gore - waterproof/breathable fabric - Bless you Sir, on a cold, wet day.
Gary Adams - successful mass production of metal headed drivers and fairway metals
Not sure - graphite shafts (Shakespear shafts in the clubs of Gary Player were first ones I can recall)
Ping (?) - mass market high spin grooves
Roger Cleveland - made the 60* lob wedge widespread
Mizuno (I think) - first to market a titanium headed driver
Not sure - electric powered golf trolley made to carry a single bag - Bless you Sir, every game
Izzo (?) - 2 strap golf bags
Name unknown - inventor or the ProV1, not the first 'solid' performance ball but probably the one with the biggest game/mass market impact

If you know the missing bits or if some of the details are incorrect please advise.

I've included a couple above but I'd be interested to here from course maintenance team members on what they reckon have been the gamechangers in maintenance practices.

All the best

Jeff_Brauer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gamechangers
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2013, 05:07:54 PM »
Thomas,

My list is similar in concept, but would be focused on construction tech - specifically irrigation, bulldozers, and even the advent of PVC drain pipe which made installation of more of it practical and affordable, much like bullozers/scrapers made earthmoving affordable.  Design always makes use of construction technology.

As to design game changers, in a way, Fazio's 3 hole addition at Inverness, which spawned criticism, which spawned the Ross Society, was a negative example of a game changer.

I see most courses as continums more than changers that really set a new paradigm.  I would agree Pete was one of those.

TD is right that in many cases, the inventor doesn't get as much historical note as the promoter or second guy to fly a plane or whatever.  But, it could be argued that the second guy was really the game changer if only because he could see the value of any design idea, and promote it to becoming the standard way of doing things.
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gamechangers
« Reply #35 on: May 08, 2013, 06:51:50 PM »
Sean,

I wouldn't call Spion Kop a freak hole but I would say that it was a very specific type of plateau hole. Maybe Colt didn't do Spion Kops but the fact that others did, and also other types of plateau greens suggest to me that Colt can't really take the credit for plateau greens. As I say, if I was to nominate Colt as a game changer, and I probably would, I would suggest it was for the overall quality of his courses rather than specifics.

However if you pushed me to name one aspect of his design that made him stand out I would suggest his use of diagonals such as echelon bunkers and greens running at an angle to line of play.

Niall



Niall

I never stated Colt invented plateau greens. If we are going to go on inventing holes, the book was written before any of turn of the century archies got a lick in - not sure what that says about modern archies.  No, what I am saying is Colt took the idea of a plateau green and made it modern and prolific.  He did so for visual reasons, aesthetic reasons and I believe for drainage reasons - all modern concepts which fit very well into the heathland concept.  I spose we shall have to agree to disagree, no worries, but you haven't come close to changing my opinion on tjhis one. 

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Gamechangers
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2013, 05:58:55 PM »
...
Wally Uihlein, etc - balls that spin less and go far?
...

Wally would be the last name to put here for that. He's the one that had to be dragged screaming and kicking into the age of unnatural ball technology.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne