[Jeff_Brauer]

David,

I suppose all I can do is tell you that if they request my services, I will go out there to provide as much advice as I can for a day, with no preconception that there will be any more work for me.  Obviously, others might think differently, and obviously, some projects really will need some big work.

The wording of that is probably not the best.

And, I understand where you come from.....after all the rest of us are convinced that "all" lawyers do whatever they need to do to run up hours and fees.......

Cheers.

[Mike_Young]

Jeff,
Gee I thought this was over a few days ago.
I just read the last few post and I want to assure you I am not being cynical of any ASGCA member if that is being insinuated.  Any comments I have made regarding ASGCA, the organization were to justify why the USGA should not be part of the collaboration.  My issue in this entire matter is the USGA allowed it to take place.  And the reason I would assume it is PR for the ASGCA is that there is no reason why it needed a collaboration.  The ASGCA could have done their thing and the USGA could have done their's.

As for the suggestion : "If you really want to mess with us, tell all your clients that they should bring in this program, you would still be retained, like Mr. Zinkland, and some ASGCA member of your choosing could be sapped into spending a day......I think that would actually be called a "Zinkie" at some point.  Too catchy not to use it somehow....."   

It ain't happening.   I'm must be missing something but why would I need such if I were giving my client a free day anyway?
And Jeff, when you say:

BTW, the ASGCA policies and procedures are the exact same for everyone who applies.  If you don't happen to meet the criteria we have established for membership, you usually don't get in, but the process is exactly the same for everyone.  I will grant that there are some human value judgements in the process, which you can't avoid, but which we have tried to overcome by using a process, to correct some of those problems decades ago.... It is very hard for a few members to blackball someone under the current process....... 

That all sounds good but competitors are not the best at judging "human value judgements" of other competitors.  One can meet all the criteria plus and not be voted in. Do you agree with the last sentence??  If ASGCA were the same as PGA or GCSAA and allowed all qualified applicants in if they chose to be a member we would not be having any of this discussion. 

None of the above is directed toward any single ASGCA member.

[Kalen Braley]

Jeff,

I actually arrived at my opinion independently, whether you believe that to be the case or not. As one who works in the tech profession, there are gobs of associations for just about every type of discipline you can think of.  I've interfaced a few of these in my past, and that was the basis for my starting point.

As for the USGA and ASGCA, I completely agree with you that each of them knows EXACTLY what the other is.  The perceived conflict is not with that...it lies with the masses of uneducated owners and muni bosses who will infer that the ASGCA is the certified/authorized/approved place to find an architect because they don't understand what the nature of the ASGCA is.  They will become the implied experts because the USGA has duly tapped them on the shoulder in proverbial knighthood fashion.

Its kinda like when you buy a Used Toyota and they claim its "certified" and its pasted all over their literature and dealership.  My follow up question to that is always, "that's great, what warranty comes with that?"  I already know the answer in this case....nothing. But I have seen many do the "ohh, ahhh" and think the car must be magically better even thou it likely had no further inspection than a 19 year old car tech giving it an oil change and car wash.

P.S.  I do concur with Mike when he said if all qualified applicants were let in, this discussion wouldn't be occurring.

[Kalen Braley]

Thought I'd post this...human nature, its a funny business sometimes. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDHaAwKXj0s

[Jeff_Brauer]

Kalen,

It has not been my experience that there are "masses of uneducated owners and muni bosses".......

I think that applicants who meets our criteria, and goes through the process successfully, have a 99% chance of being recommended for membership and voted in by the Board of Governors.  Sometimes, unfortunate things happen, but not that often.

And, I think golf course architects are pretty good judges of other golf course architects, although a few have their own self interest in mind.  Generally, self interest is not why you join such a group, though.  Not sure who else would be qualified to judget in our small profession.  As I have noted, there is no license requirements so are requirements/rules have to be different than for architects and engineers. Sometimes, it just is what it is, and it doesn't work out evenly for everyone......

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()