Introduction of new member

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

I discovered GCA a few months ago when researching the experience in the US with non overseeding paspalum greens in the winter. Ran was very kind in accepting me as a newbie, so I think I should properly introduce myself to this community.

I'm a native Argentinian who has managed to survive during 49 years all our governments (not a minor achievement) and still be able to play golf and sit on a number of golf club committees. In Argentina I am a member of the Hurlingham Club (which, as you can tell from the name, is a very English club) and a member of its Golf Committee. This club was founded in 1888 and apart from having hosted 7 times the Argentine Open (the 5th oldest professional tournament in the world), is also the site of the oldest polo tournament in the world.

I am also a member of Mar del Plata Golf Club, a links (or at least a links-like) course right by the Atlantic 400 kilometers (250 miles) south of Buenos Aires, where I started playing golf when I was 5 during my usual summer vacations at the beach with my parents. There I sit on the board of directors and I am a member of its Rules Committee and Juniors Committee. I am also a member of the Golf Club Argentino in Buenos Aires, a country club in the suburbs of the city where I actually have my house and live. Not happy with that, I am also a member of the Board of Directors of the Argentine Golf Association and a regular referee at both amateur and professional tournaments.

In my spare time, I work as a corporate lawyer (or at least my partners believe that) and I am a father of 6 children (all of them golfers). As you may anticipate, playing golf is the least of my activities and I have a rusty 14 handicap and 6 was my best ever (seems such a long time ago...)

I am a regular visitor to the US and the UK. In England I have played once a year 2 rounds at Royal St. George's for the past 5 years. This year I finally decided to take a tour of the Kent coast (and a bit further) and together with the captain of the Hurlingham Club we will play in September at Royal St. George's, Princes, Royal Cinque Ports, Littlestone, Rye and Sunningdale. We still need to find another course to play on Sunday September 8 (Chart Hills perhaps but any suggestions are welcome).

Kind regards to everyone at GCA.

[Mac Plumart]

Welcome aboard!!

[Kevin Lynch]

Great to have you join the Treehouse. Always a pleasure to have a different perspective from across the globe.

[Bill_McBride]

Ricardo, my wife and I spent a week in Buenos Aires in January 2008.  We didn't take our golf clubs but had a great time in your beautiful capital. 

Your selection of courses along the Kent coast is superlative.   I think of those links courses as a series of diamonds on a necklace, stretched along the coast as they are.  If I were to add to your list I would probably add another heathland course such as New Zealand  or Liphook or the great courses at Walton Heath.  You won't go wrong in picking any of those courses. 

[John McCarthy]

Wow!  Quite a resume there.  I'm a short timer here but it is so much fun. 

If you ever get to Chicago drop a line. 

Question:  does Argentina have a lot of sandy, links land? 

[Tim Martin]

Welcome aboard Ricardo. Enjoy!

[Eric Strulowitz]

Have a great time on your trip to Kent.  Have played all those courses on your itinerary except Chart Hills.  
You will get a great sampling of some of the best links in England.

You don't hear r much about golf in your country.  How big or not big is it?.  Are there golf resorts or areas of high golf course concentration where one could spend a few days?.

Would love to come out some day.   I here nothing but good things about Buenos Aires and the surrounding countryside.

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Thank you for the warm welcome.

Mac and Kevin: the great thing about golf in Buenos Aires is that you can play it all year round. It never gets too cold in winter, it never snows and the only problem is rain.

Kevin: thank you for your suggestion of courses to play. We will be staying in Sandwich at the Bell Hotel during our stay, so that would rule out New Zealand (going back and forth the same day wouldn't make such much sense). The plan as of today is as follows:

Friday 6-09 Royal St. George's
Saturday 7-09 Littlestone
Sunday still open
Monday 9-09 Royal Cinque Ports
Tuesday 10-09 Prince's
Wednesday 11-09 Rye and back to London
Thursday 12-09 Sunningdale Old

I thought about Hayling for Sunday, but it seems to be a bit far away from Sandwich.

John: don't get fooled. You know how lawyers can dress up things to make them look great. There is a big coastal and sandy area very similar to linksland. Argentina has more than 6000 kilometers (3700 miles) of Atlantic coast. However, there are no more than 2 links courses, although some purists may deny that those 2 even are true links. Mar del Plata Golf Club is one of them. Many holes are definite links, with huge dunes, crispy fairways, hard and very fast greens, wind blowing from every corner and a perfect view of the sea from every hole. However, it has some trees on it, which would make a purist reject it as a links. You can find some pictures at the following website: www.mardelplatagolfclub.com.ar. Would you say that the clubhouse fits in any UK club?

The other one is Miramar, less than 30 miles south of Mar del Plata. This one has no trees and has an undeniable links atmosphere, but it could also be considered a clifftop course. I will be playing there next weekend with a group of friends. I'll try to take pictures to show you.

I may sound a bit snobbish about when to consider a course as a links, but after reading True Links, I started making myself lots of questions about those two courses.

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Eric,

Argentina has a very long golfing tradition going back to 1870/80. Of course, we would look as newcomers for a British, but for the new world it's quite old. Most of the old clubs were established by the British who came to work for the railroad companies at that time, the Hurlingham Club being the best example of it. If a Brit would come into our clubhouse, would feel almost at home with pictures of Her Majesty the Queen, Queen Victoria, King Edward VII and more.

We have approximately 380 courses in the country. There is a very big concentration around Buenos Aires, since most of the population lives there. However, Cordóba, in the center of the country, also has an interesting group of courses (not less than 20) and the Mar del Plata area is also very good for a golfer. Mar del Plata Golf Club has two completely different courses: the Old Course which is a seaside course and the New Course, distant some 10 minutes, which is an inland course. In addition, there are 3 more golf clubs (Club Mar del Plata Acantilados, Sierra de los Padres and Marayui) in the city, with very good courses and Miramar is less than 30 miles away.

[Randy Thompson]

Ricardo,
Welcome aboard! Have we met?
I am the other South American member.

[Ronald Montesano]

Bienvenido, che. ?Asi que sos vos padre de seis pibes? Felicitaciones.

En cuanto al golf, es ese Miramar de que habla's el que sale en la peli "diarios de motocicleta," donde Ernesto y Chichina se reunen?

[Jason Topp]

Ricardo

Great to have Argentina represented here.  Welcome!

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Randy,

We did meet but it was many years ago when you were still advising Mar del Plata Golf Club and I had just joined the Board (15 years ago perhaps). You may remember Diego González Casartelli who took over presidency and Sergio Kasatkin, the captain. I joined the Board with those guys.

I haven't seen the movie, Ronald. The Che is not one of my favorite characters. If they show the city of Miramar, that's the one. However, there is a big ranch in the Province of Buenos Aires also called Miramar.

[Tom Culley]

Ricardo,

If you are looking for a game not far from the Kent coast, may i suggest you spend the morning visiting Canterbury and it's famous cathedral before playing a round at the local Colt course in the afternoon. I'm a Canterbury member and would be happy to host!

Cheers,

Tom

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Brian and Tom,

It is true that except for Sunningdale, it is very links oriented. It's hard to find those type of courses in other parts of the world. English parkland courses are very usual in Argentina. Sean also suggested Canterbury, which was a place to visit in our schedule. I am almost convinced of going to Canterbury to play golf.

[Mark Pritchett]

Welcome!  I look forward to your participation.  

[Mark Chaplin]

Ricardo - welcome, clearly a man of distinction visiting the heaths and links of south east England!

A nice offer from Tom, which could fit in nicely on a Sunday. I was going to suggest changing to Princes on Sunday where access is easier, leaving Tuesday to access a private club. But Canterbury is worth a tour and a game.

I'll have to get my brother to pick your brain. He is planning his World Cup 2014 trip and looking to travel extensively around South America during the 5 weeks he is away. Argentina is top of his list.

[Brian Finn]

Welcome, Ricardo!

I used to spend quite a bit of time in Argentina for work - mainly in 2006-2008.  In fact, I think we have some common friends/colleagues (P. Vinals Blake was our deal attorney).  I enjoyed my time in Argentina immensely.

I had the good fortune to play some golf near BA - my personal favorite there was Olivos GC.  I hope to have a chance to visit again to play additional courses and do more sight-seeing.  

I suppose the big question to ask you is...do you support River, Boca, or another club?

[Randy Thompson]

Ricardo,
Has it already been 15 years...yikes! Did you find the answers you were looking for in relation to winter overseeding paspalm? If not we can ask the tree house and see what other help or suggestions may be out there. I am sure there is not a whole lot of info since most of the paspalm of late are being used in the caribbiean and far south but there may be a few in the transition zone. But this is as good of a place to check as any!

[Paul Gray]

Welcome Ricardo,

I'd be happy to show you around Hayling. Work means I'm no longer a member there but it's still very much home.

I'll just throw in another option for you to consider however: Worthing is not so far for you to travel to and would, I think, be something quite different for you to experience. I don't suppose authentic downland golf features too much in Argentina but I stand to be corrected. Pyecombe is another one to thrown into that mix.

Alternatively, consider the completely bunker free Royal Ashdown Forest.

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Mark,

You are extremely kind. I wouldn't say a man of distinction, may be a conservative who enjoys wearing a tie and a jacket for lunch at the club and loves all the tradition of British clubs. I'm happy to help your brother plan his trip to South America, more so if it is to watch Argentina win the World Cup! You can give him my e-mail address.

Brian,

What a coincidence. Pablo and I were made partners at the same time. His office was right next door. If you come back to Argentina, let me know so that we can arrange golf. Of course I support River Plate, as any well educated gentleman would. And I am quite fanatic about it.

Randy,

I did find good answers for the issue. I may open another post, but briefly what I was exploring was the experience in places like the transition zone in not overseeding paspalum or bermuda greens. As you know, the practice in Argentina is to overseed paspalum or bermuda greens with winter grass. This is an anoying issue, because it cuts the best part of the golf season. This year at the Hurlingham Club we decided not to overseed. We'll see the results.

Paul,

Thanks for the suggestion. Royal Ashdown Forest has been one of the options from the very beginning. So many good courses, so little time!

Best,

[Bill_McBride]

I am really sorry I was not able to see a futbol match when my wife and I visited BA in 2008.  I think we spent too much time tripping over each other's feet trying to learn the tango!   Would a Boca-River Plate match have been interesting, or just dangerous?   

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

There is nothing like it anywhere in the world. Forget about the match itself, the big show is at the stands. It's something you definitely should see in your life.

[Mark Chaplin]

My brother Ian and I have seen Argentina play twice in the World Cup, the last time was in Germany when they demolished Serbia and Montenegro 6-0 in the indoor stadium at Gelsenkirshen. I've never seen so many superb goals in a match.

The other time was less enjoyable being the quarter final of France 1998 in St-Etienne, Michael Owen burst onto the international scene with a great solo goal, Beckham was sent off and we lost on penalties. The overnight train to Paris and onward Eurostar to London after the match was pretty miserable!

[Ricardo Ramirez Calvo]

Two happy memories for us, and there haven't been that many in recent years.