Cobb's Creek restoration: TGC Morning Drive programming update

[Joe Bausch]

Joe, I walk by an updated design plan for Cobbs Creek every morning when I arrive at the GAP office and I tell myself I'm one day closer...

My fingers and toes are crossed.   

[Joe Bausch]

To help digest the routing progression at Cobb's and the early plans I've included earlier, here is the original routing at Cobb's Creek:



In addition to hosting two PGA Tour events in the mid 1950's (Daily News Open), the first 'big event' Cobb's Creek hosted was the 1928 US Publinx.  The routing for the course at that point is as follows:



And below is the current routing that went into effect in the early 50's when an anti-aircraft base was moved onto the Cobb's property:



All of those figures are clickable to bigger sizes.

[Mark McKeever]

Joe...Im still puzzled why there was always such a gap between 17 tee and 18 tee.  Any insight there??  Could there have ever been a tee back by current 17 tee making it a huge par 5?

Mark

[Joe Bausch]

Joe...Im still puzzled why there was always such a gap between 17 tee and 18 tee.  Any insight there??  Could there have ever been a tee back by 16 tee making it a huge par 5?

Mark

You mean in the original routing? If so, we are confident based upon an article from the 20's that the reason was the City would not allow and trees to come down.

In the articles surrounding the course opening in 1916, the local press spun it that the reason was a public golf course should spread out the players and more exercise is a good thing!

[Mark McKeever]

Interesting.  So the players would walk of 17 green and traverse the hollow and back up the hill to 18 tee?

Mark

[Joe Bausch]

Interesting.  So the players would walk off 17 green and traverse the hollow and back up the hill to 18 tee?

Mark

Yes, it was a very long walk.

[Mike Sweeney]

.
Back on topic...looking forward to seeing the revamped Cobb's someday!  Do you foresee "composite days" where the public can test out the championship routing?  I believe TCC members can play the Composite one weekend per month or something.

It would be wonderful to be at the point of inquiring whether "composite days" are going to be implemented!  I know I would hope so, at least a few times each golfing season.

Joe,

That composite course looks fabulous, as the holes up near City Line can/could be a little monotonous.  Thanks for posting the sequence of routings. I will be contacting Mayor Michael Nutter to make sure that St Joe's Prep guys get out on composite days first. We will see if there is any room for Nova guys on an as needed basis  

[Mark McKeever]

Interesting.  So the players would walk off 17 green and traverse the hollow and back up the hill to 18 tee?

Mark

Yes, it was a very long walk.

Very different than others from the same time period.

Mark

[mike_malone]

 I see that since they want to change Karakung to 9 holes they need to change its name to Karakong.

[Joe Bausch]

I see that since they want to change Karakung to 9 holes they need to change its name to Karakong.

Nothing gets by you Maydoy.

 

[Joe Bausch]

Concerning the long walk in the original routing from 17 to 18, Perry Lewis of the Philadelphia Inquirer wrote on January 18, 1919:

[Mark McKeever]

Interesting read, thanks!

Mark

[John Shimony]

Great find and very interesting indeed.  Joe, do you know what land is the "unexpected acquisiton"?

[Joe Bausch]

From Mike Cirba:

In answer to John Shimony's question regarding the unexpected land acquisition, I've done some pretty extensive investigation recently on how and when the various plots of land that make up today's Cobb's Creek (and Karakung) golf courses were acquired, and I have to think that they are either talking about A) The land across the creek that actually lies in Delaware County and which would have been the location for the original (and today's) 3rd green, 5th fairway, 6th tee, and the original 14th green which was located across the parking lot of today's City Avenue Driving range., or B) Land that is in a narrow band through the property running from about today's 6th green up to a point in today's 11th fairway that was owned by the Pennsylvania Railroad.    I suspect the former, although it really doesn't exactly answer the question of how this relates to the routing of the original 17th green and the long walk to the 18th tee.
 
Interestingly, one of the largest original property owners (he owned the land of today's 3rd and 18, the clubhouse and most of the first and second holes) was the estate of a late VP of the Philadelphia Phillies, who had died in 1910 of heart failure while watching his team in a particularly intense game.
 

[Ed Brzezowski]

And my guess is that the Fightin Phils gave that poor soul a heart attack due to poor bull pen performance.

Nice to see your fight featured in Golf Digest, however please keep Hank's scar off the new logo.

On a serious note what you guys are doing is really a labor of love. Getting that old girl back into fighting shapre looked like a uphill battle and it appears you are in the home streach, job well done.
ed

[Joe Bausch]

More from Mike C:

There may be another way to view this "unexpected acquisition" question.   This morning it occurred to me that I've been looking at it from the perspective of the city of Philadelphia acquiring parcels of land for Cobb's Creek Park, which they did by some form of eminent domain, paying the owners for a number of large properties, some of which included the estates of the Ashhurst's, the Elliott's, the Equitable Trust Company, the Wolfenden's, and as mentioned, land owned by the PA Railroad Co, which intersected the land of today's Cobb's Creek course.   All of those transactions took place in the 1910-11 timeframe, however, and then became part of the larger parcel known as Cobbs Creek Park.
 
Early reports about the agreement of the city to use land within the park for a golf course talked about 91 acres in the northwest boundary of the park.   Much like Merion, during the acquisition/design phase it was determined that more land was needed for the type of course they wanted, and eventually the course that was designed and built ended up being roughly 125 acres, again much like Merion.   It could be that there had to be some convincing on the part of the GAP design committee negotiating with the city to get more land for the course, which could have been just a logical extension further to the southeast by 35 acres or so from what the city originally agreed to.

[mike_malone]

While the buzz is about recovering #6 to its original glory I want to bring attention to the stretch of the recovered #9 through #13. #9 will be a Flynn like tee shot along the ridgeline. #10 will also have a Flynn angled feel up hill to a 200 plus par 3. Then. #11 will be an awesome par 5 uphill with a challenging approach. Then #12 will be a fun drop shot with the hazard at the left and in the back. I should continue on to the intriguing #13 par 5 which will traverse across wetlands for the tee shot and end with an uphill possibly blind approach. Wow! What a stretch of golf.

[John Shimony]

Is Mike saying that the first and second holes may be the land that was unexpectedly acquired?

[Dan Herrmann]

What can we do to help the cause?

[Joe Bausch]

From Mike C:

John Shimony asks a good question and I wish I knew the answer but all we can do is speculate based on fragments of information available.   In June of 1913, the Fairmount Park, based on the recommendation of a special committee of GAP (Wilson, Crump, Smith, Slattery) charged with locating a site for a public course, recommended the City Council allocate $30,000 "to lay out an 18 hole golf course at the northern end of Cobb's Creek Park..."
 
A.W. Tillinghast reported in July, "...to establish a free golf course in Cobb's Creek Park, where there is an unbroken tract of 91 acres available for an eighteen hole golf course."
 
Another news account at the time wrote, "The proposed golf course in Cobb's Creek Park is a tract of land in the northern end, and is described by the committee as an ideal site.   It consists of a plateau with an undulating slope dropping down to the bank of the creek.   The tract comprises about ninety-one acres, which has been in grass for a number of years and can be put in order for golf with little expenditure."
 
Sometime between the summer of 1913 and summer 1914, it appears more land was acquired, which by definition would have been south of the initial 91 acres, because as mentioned, today's course is about 125-135 acres, depending on how you measure, and we know the initial land was at the northernmost end, abutting City Line Avenue.
 
Using an acreage calculator, measuring the land from the creek to the 10th tee at the north, and today's 6th green to 11th green, and then along the east west boundaries of that area comes up with about 80+ acres, which we can reasonably assume was all part of the original 91.   Knowing the original property boundaries, I would think that the tract they considered first probably had it's southernmost point around today's 17th tee/4th green.
 
Again, guessing, but based on what's known to us today.   This would also make sense in terms of the location of the long walk from the original 17th green (today's 11th) to the 18th tee over on the hill closer to the old abandoned farm buildings that became the clubhouse and locker rooms, respectively.   Thanks for your interest.
 
As far as what anyone can do in the meantime to help, keep your fingers and toes crossed. 

[Joe Bausch]

More from Mike:

The following drawing published in early 1915 with the original course routing shows where I now believe the original 91 acres were located (from the northern part of the property on the far left of this drawing over to the green line drawn along the intersection of Coleman St. extending to the creek).  
 

 
The green line ending at the intersection of Coleman St. is just shy of today's 17th tee.   The property between the green and red (intersection of Malvern St.) lines was owned in 1910 by Howard Sellers, who was one of the very prominent family of owners of the Millburne Wheat Grain Mill, which was located along Cobbs Creek south of the location of the golf course and was actually it's own township of "Millburne".   I haven't yet found anything that shows a transfer of land from Sellers to the city so it may be that he was a late holdout and could account for the "unexpected acquisition" happening between 1913 and 1914 when the course routing was finalized.   For those who know the course, Sellers property is the site of today's 17th hole, along with the 4th and the first half of the 5th.
 
The area as described in 1913 would have been 91 contiguous acres of the park that was mostly former open farmland and generally devoid of thick woods.  We also know that by 1912 the city owned all of the land south of the red line, having already acquired the Elliott and Wolfenden estates which make up today's 3, 18, clubhouse, along with 1 and 2.  
 
So it's fairly likely that in 1913, when GAP first got approval to use land in Cobbs Creek Park for the public golf course that the obvious choice was the contiguous 91 acres as indicated here.   The next stretch of land (indicated between the green and red lines) was likely still owned by Sellers, while the land of today's 1, 2, 3, and 18, along with the clubhouse and locker rooms were already part of the park (through the prior acquisition of the Elliott and Wofenden estates), yet not connected to the northernmost portion, which is where today's 17th, first half of 5, and the 4th hole are located, sort of the "Big Valleys", if you think about it that way.  
 
Also, it's important to note that in 1913, the city had not yet made provisions to use the land across the creek in Delaware County for the golf course, so this would not have been among the 91 acres discussed.   I've been working with Joe Bausch and the following is a good approximation of where we think it's logical the 91 acres were located (note...they come out to appox. 89.5 in this roughed out diagram.
 

 
Again, this is speculative, but I'm fairly certain after looking at this again in terms of the overall acreage.   This would also make sense in terms of the location of the long walk from the original 17th green (today's 11th) to the 18th tee over on the hill closer to the old abandoned farm buildings that became the clubhouse and locker rooms, respectively. 

[mike_malone]

Shouldn't he be on his honeymoon?

[Joe Bausch]

Shouldn't he be on his honeymoon?

This is his honeymoon.

[John Shimony]

Great stuff.  The holdout property ran directly through the course!  Thank goodness it was acquired.  Next week I'm going to make the walk from the old 17th green (today's 11th) to the 18th tee.  I'll bring a compass and a machete.  Thanks for the info, guys.

[Joe Bausch]

David Owen wrote an article on Cobb's Creek which is now available online:

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-courses/2013-06/david-owen-muny-life

[Tags:]

Tags: