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Mark Hissey

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The greatest courses that no longer exist
« on: May 04, 2013, 01:35:36 PM »
Please excuse me if this has been posted in the past, so if it has, please merge it with the original.

One of the most intriguing golf books that I have read is Missing Links. What are the opinions of the forum about the greatest golf courses that no longer exist and why? These could be courses that have been so severely changed that they bear little resemblance to the original design. Or, that they were just ploughed under for economic or political reasons. Are there any overseas? Are there any secret ones that few people know about? Do we have any routings or photographs of them?
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BCrosby

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2013, 01:50:25 PM »
Opinions will differ, but I think most on this board would vote for The Lido as the best NLE course.

Wexler covered the topic so well in his two books, I'm hard pressed to think of NLE courses in the US that he didn't cover that would be considered 'great'.

In the UK, Colt's original Eden Course at St Andrews would fit the bill. 

Bob
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Jud_T

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2013, 01:54:58 PM »
The Old Course   8)
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Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

BCrosby

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2013, 02:11:42 PM »
Jud T -

Good point. And to think we can all watch it happen in slow motion.

Bob
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Mike_Young

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2013, 02:16:52 PM »
Old Standard club, Atlanta, GA.  RTJ Sr.
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

BCrosby

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2013, 02:33:35 PM »
Mike -

Was the old Standard Club that good? I never got around to playing it and then, boom, one day it was closed and they moved the club north of town.

B.Martin -

I've read a couple places where the Addington course that was plowed under (was it the Croome course?) after WWII was the better of the two. Tom Simpson thought very highly of it.

Bob
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Tommy Williamsen

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2013, 02:44:03 PM »
The Raynor course at Augusta CC
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Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

BCrosby

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2013, 02:58:04 PM »
Tommy -

The pictures I've seen of that course aren't terribly impressive. But who knows.

Bob
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Mike_Young

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2013, 02:59:13 PM »
Quote from: BCrosby on May 04, 2013, 02:33:35 PM
Mike -

Was the old Standard Club that good? I never got around to playing it and then, boom, one day it was closed and they moved the club north of town.

Bob

Bob,
I think it was better than Druid Hills or Capital City....it was a very good test at the time...
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Mike_Young

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2013, 03:01:43 PM »
Quote from: Tommy Williamsen on May 04, 2013, 02:44:03 PM
The Raynor course at Augusta CC

Tommy,
Not sure about that BUT the original Forest Hills course in augusta ( Donald Ross) was very good before it was chopped up by highway etc...
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Adam_Messix

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2013, 03:06:59 PM »
Timber Point
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BCrosby

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2013, 03:10:40 PM »
Good catch re Forest Hills in Augusta. Highly thought of at one time.

An even better candidate is the NLE No. 2 course at East Lake, though I think Wexler covered it in his last book. It was better than the surviving East Lake.

Bob
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Bill_McBride

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2013, 03:24:32 PM »
Sharp Park must have been something to see before the tsunami.  A couple of the alternate fairway holes were very Lido-esque. 
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Cliff Hamm

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2013, 04:30:38 PM »
Beaver Tail Golf Course in Jamestown Rhode Island.

The following is an interview with Steve Smyers from a 1995 issue of Links magazine:


I’m also building a course in Charlotte, N.C., called Jamison’s Glen, one in Marion, Ill., a 36-hole complex in New Jersey called Royce Brook and a classical course in Rhode Island called Beaver Tail Golf Links. It will include the restoration of a nine-hole A.W. Tillinghast course and a new nine-hole course which will be designed with the Tillinghast philosophy. The entire course will overlook the Narragansett Bay and the Atlantic Ocean and will play firm. The wind blows pretty good there and several holes are located along the bluffs of the ocean.


Unfortunately this never did and will not happen.
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Chris Cupit

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2013, 04:46:38 PM »
Quote from: Mike_Young on May 04, 2013, 02:16:52 PM
Old Standard club, Atlanta, GA.  RTJ Sr.

I'm kinda with Bob on this one  ;)

Agreed there were some good hole--#1, #3, #12, #17 but there were some dogs too--#4, #5, #6, #10, #11

Very short even for its day and some severe doglegs (#4, #10).  As you know, Mark is my super and he was there with Palmer Maples as a teenager through their move north until 2004 or so.  He of course has fond memories but also felt the old course was really constrained in areas.

You really think it is equal or better than Druid Hills?   :o
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Niall Hay

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2013, 05:12:37 PM »
Country Club of Detroit - Colt
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Craig Disher

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2013, 08:00:29 PM »
Lido, Timber Point, and Mill Road Farm - in that order. Ross's Indian Spring near DC ought to be included as well.
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Adam_Messix

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2013, 08:51:08 PM »
Craig--

Good catch on Mill Road Farm.  Can only imagine that course today.  The USGA would have it's Chicagoland U. S. Open venue if Mr. Lasker's heirs were willing to give up their course for a week!
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Bill Shotzbarger

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2013, 09:06:11 PM »
Last night I was looking at a list of courses designed by Donald Ross. Apparently he laid out 9 holes on Nantucket in 1917 known as Nantucket Golf Links. I imagine it was pretty good. What does anyone know about this NLE?
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jeffwarne

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2013, 09:41:49 PM »
Quote from: Mike_Young on May 04, 2013, 03:01:43 PM
Quote from: Tommy Williamsen on May 04, 2013, 02:44:03 PM
The Raynor course at Augusta CC

Tommy,
Not sure about that BUT the original Forest Hills course in augusta ( Donald Ross) was very good before it was chopped up by highway etc...

+1  on Forest Hills   :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Sure would have liked to have seen Raynor ACC as well
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"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2013, 09:47:00 PM »
Quote from: jeffwarne on May 04, 2013, 09:41:49 PM
Quote from: Mike_Young on May 04, 2013, 03:01:43 PM
Quote from: Tommy Williamsen on May 04, 2013, 02:44:03 PM
The Raynor course at Augusta CC

Tommy,
Not sure about that BUT the original Forest Hills course in augusta ( Donald Ross) was very good before it was chopped up by highway etc...

+1  on Forest Hills   :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Sure would have liked to have seen Raynor ACC as well

I played ACC with a member last week who said that there is a routing of the Raynor course and it was sold during the depression.
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Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

BCrosby

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2013, 10:20:19 PM »
The Raynor course at Augusta CC was actually built and in play sometime in the early 20's or late teens. G. Bahto has the details. It was sold off in the middle of the Great Depression.

Until then ACC had 36 holes, the Raynor and the current Ross course. The Raynor course was located in what is now a residential neighborhood just beyond the ANGC par three course and to the left of the ANGC property along 10th fw.

I've seen a few pictures and a crude routing that are less than life-changing. But as noted, who knows? It might have been a very good course. Very little is known about it. There seems to be scant photographic evidence. Somebody ought to research it.

Bob
« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 08:21:04 AM by BCrosby »
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Mike_Young

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2013, 10:33:02 PM »
Quote from: Chris Cupit on May 04, 2013, 04:46:38 PM
Quote from: Mike_Young on May 04, 2013, 02:16:52 PM
Old Standard club, Atlanta, GA.  RTJ Sr.

I'm kinda with Bob on this one  ;)

Agreed there were some good hole--#1, #3, #12, #17 but there were some dogs too--#4, #5, #6, #10, #11

Very short even for its day and some severe doglegs (#4, #10).  As you know, Mark is my super and he was there with Palmer Maples as a teenager through their move north until 2004 or so.  He of course has fond memories but also felt the old course was really constrained in areas.

You really think it is equal or better than Druid Hills?   :o

Chris,
As a 15 year old I probably recall it differently than I would have at 30, which is where I was when Mark was the supt there.  I do think it was as good as Druid Hills maybe not better.  NOW as for it being a "greatest course" I named it so we would have some courses in the south to throw at all these guys.  Otherwise there will be a list of chicago and Northeastern US courses and nothing more ;D ;D
Hope all is well....
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Jon Wiggett

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2013, 06:34:25 AM »
For me the old Moorallerton in Leeds. Never played it but have talked to many who had.

Somewhat of a side-track but what do people think is the best NLE that could be resurrected?

Jon
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Niall C

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Re: The greatest courses that no longer exist
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2013, 06:57:59 AM »
Quote from: Jud T on May 04, 2013, 01:54:58 PM
The Old Course   8)

Which version ?
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