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Bill Brightly

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A Road Hole Restored!
« on: May 02, 2013, 11:06:30 AM »
Hackensack Golf Club was Charles Banks' first solo design after Raynor died. He secured this contract while supervising the second year of construction at Fishers Island. The 18th at Hackensack was his first Road Hole. While it has undergone many significant changes over the years, it has always been regarded as one of the better closing holes in New Jersey because it is a beautiful dogleg to an elevated green guarded by a deep front left bunker. It has finally been faithfully restored to Banks' vision. In fact, it is far better than what he built because the club's leadership in 1926 did not allow him to build all the bunkers on his plan:  


The hole is 421 from the regular tees, 439 from the Blacks. Playing uphill into the prevailing wind, I think it is a perfect par 4 and 1/2.
 
In 1960 our leaders determined that the course needed to be modernized, and William Gordon was hired. He raised the floor of all the deep bunkers, eliminated turf faces and installed sand faces, and removed all the back bunkers (because as his son David told me: "Dad felt that going over a green was enough of a penalty".) Most notably, the "Road"(a 60 yard long bunker) behind the green was removed and a much smaller bunker was built about 30 yards short of the 18th green, so it was more of a hazard for the 9th green. Rees Jones was hired in the mid 1990's to re-build the bunkers which were old, tired, and collapsing. He returned the grass faces but did not restore the bunkers to their original depth. (He was not asked to restore the course.) Here is what the  hole looked like before restoration started:



About 6 years ago we went back to Rees and asked for a pure restoration plan, which he prepared and was approved by a 188-12 membership vote. I know that Rees often gets knocked on this site, but as I think these photos will show, when asked to RESTORE, his work can be excellent.
[
From the tee before


[img
width=800]http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/Hackensack/
18a.jpg[/img]


And after


The first mound you see on the left is at most a 200 yard carry from the regular tees and has no sand. It is "the hotel" at St. Andrews and primarily serves the purpose of partially obscuring the landing area. The three bunkers on the right are about 220, 240 and 260 off the tee. The bunker on the left is 275 off the tee and is the only diversion from Banks' plan, necessiated by the loss of a 100 year old oak (during Superstorm Sandy) that made a play from the left rough/left edge of the fairway problematic. Without this bunker, bombers wouild ignore all the bunkers on the right and have a simple wedge to the green.

The fairway bunkers on the left removed and the fairway extended left by about 10 yards. Shorter hitters can play to this spot for a fairly simple three shots to the green strategy. You can also see the tree on the left that was lost.


After the work, about 200 yards from the green


Prior to the work


After, about 165 to the green


From the 150 before


After



The Road is restored!!!


View from the 9th fairway



Prior to the work, Jon Lyon just short of green



After









As you can see by the photo above, the restoration of the fairway height kickmounds will be an exciting new element, especially for those players needing to play a longer running shot to the green. Prior to the work the right side of the green (a common bailout) was thick rough, leaving players a difficult yet boring downhill flop shot. Now there is a good chance the ball will kick back onto the green, or perhaps roll over into the bunker.

Leaving NGLA out of the discussion and admitting my home course bias, I'll submit this as one of the best tributes to the Road Hole that you will ever play.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 09:09:34 AM by Bill Brightly »

Alex Miller

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2013, 11:12:39 AM »
Bill,

This looks like a wonderful rendition of a road hole! The bunkers on the outside of the dogleg appear crucial to the strategy of the hole given that is the better angle to a traditionally oriented road hole green, and I love the new view from the tee.

Jim_Kennedy

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2013, 11:14:57 AM »
What can I say but - NICE!!
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

Matthew Petersen

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2013, 12:44:40 PM »
Looks beautiful.

Jud_T

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2013, 03:43:31 PM »
Bill,

Congrats.  Looks very nice.  We still need to do the Banks' tour!
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Eric Smith

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2013, 03:55:31 PM »
Really impressive, Bill. I'm sure even more so in person. Congrats!

Mark McKeever

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2013, 04:02:48 PM »
Looks incredible Bill!

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

Jerry Kluger

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2013, 04:17:42 PM »
You obviously can sell more than insurance to convince the membership to undertake the restoration which I know is more than just this hole.  Congrats

Mark McKeever

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2013, 05:30:33 PM »
You said Rees Jones is doing this work?

Mark
Best MGA showers - Bayonne

"Dude, he's a total d***"

JMEvensky

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2013, 05:46:35 PM »
The new hole looks great and it must be very gratifying when you obviously put in a lot of work.

After reading your comments in the GCA/fine wine thread,I'm curious about the members' response.Are they glad you "pushed" them toward a more historically accurate renovation?

Are there now more members interested in trying to be faithful to the original?

Colin Macqueen

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2013, 06:27:55 PM »
Bill,

This is very neat indeed. It is good to see your perseverance coming to fruition.

When I look at the Hackensack Road Hole bunker I wonder if its "gathering" aspect is fearsome or not. Often photograhy belies the severity of this type of slope ... is that the case here? In the same breath the fairway cut looks lower than that surrounding the bunker so does that reduce the propensity for the slightly errant ball to be drawn into the bowels of your newly created masterpiece?

Cheers Colin
"Golf, thou art a gentle sprite, I owe thee much"
The Hielander

Ed Oden

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2013, 06:48:00 PM »
Bill, this hole looks terrific - as does everything else I have seen of Hackensack's restoration.  I look forward to seeing it in person some day.  In the meantime, congratulations!  

I have a general road hole question.  One of the things that seems to me to make the original so ingenious is the way the green angles diagonally AGAINST the angle of approach.  In my mind, that is what makes the road hole bunker and the road so effective and the approach so difficult.  Yet Banks version at Hackensack has the green angling WITH the angle of approach.  Stated another way, from tee to green Hackensack's hole is the reverse image of #17 at TOC with the dogleg and hazard (bunker v. hotel) opposite from the original.  But at the green, it is the same (i.e., both Hackensack and St. Andrews have the road hole bunker on the left and the road/hazard on the right).  For road hole connoisseurs, is that a big deal?  Does Banks' version diminish the effectiveness of the greenside hazards?  

« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 06:49:47 PM by Ed Oden »

Bill Brightly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2013, 07:46:16 PM »
Ed,

I have thought about this a lot and I do not think the "reverse" dogleg diminishes at all from the hole. It changes the look and play of the tee shot, for sure. But once you have hit the fairway, you are left with an approach to the green that is quite similar to The Old Course, IMO. As I have said many times on this site, Macdonald copied FEATURES of holes, not entire holes. I think it is so cool that the same green angle and bunkering presents equivalent challenges on both a dogleg left and dogleg right.

Colin,

Built on a clay-based parkland site, our Road Hole Bunker will never gather as well as TOC because our fairways are not as fast and firm. We definitely tried to eliminate the protective rough collars as much as possible. Running shots will work their way into the bunker more because of its size (Banks tended to make his bunkers bigger than Macdonald) but also because of the uphill nature of the approach which will deaden forward momentum for those who need to play a wood to the green. In any event, the bunker is certainly fearsome, have no doubt about that, but it is more of an aerial challenge for those who can hit their tee shots 250+ plus.

JM,

There are definitely far more members aware about the architectural history of our course. I wrote an article about TOC's Road Hole and Macraynor templates, trying to explain why ours was being altered the way we did. And MANY members thanked me and said it was neat to know that our hole was tied to TOC and this will give them added enjoyment when they play it, and something to talk about with their guests. But I also know that most of the "sticks" don't really care about Banks, Raynor or Macdonald, they just see a new hole with tons of challenge, especially since we have so many drab tee shots (before we get to those holes :) ) and they like it for that reason.Of course there are a small minority of members who wish we had left the course alone and not spent the money, but the reaction at the club has been so positive, they probably will keep their thoughts to themselves.

Mark,
 
Yes, Rees Jones. He is a member of NGLA and Montclair, which has a Banks nine. The shaping was done by our superintendent, a really talented guy. We are doing all the work in house, one or two holes per year as the budget permits. He made the coolest comment this year: "I can feel Banks when I shape, I KNOW what he was trying to do!"

Wait until I post a thread on our restored punchbowl. (The green has been shaped and the fairway bunkers are going in now.)

 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2013, 08:12:24 PM by Bill Brightly »

Ed Oden

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2013, 08:58:37 PM »
Ed,

I have thought about this a lot and I do not think the "reverse" dogleg diminishes at all from the hole. It changes the look and play of the tee shot, for sure. But once you have hit the fairway, you are left with an approach to the green that is quite similar to The Old Course, IMO. As I have said many times on this site, Macdonald copied FEATURES of holes, not entire holes. I think it is so cool that the same green angle and bunkering presents equivalent challenges on both a dogleg left and dogleg right.


Bill, I understand and agree.  One thing that is interesting is that the right side fairway bunkers which Banks designed and which it looks like you put in are critical to achieving the equivalent challenge, albeit in a different form.  Even though the right bunkers are not carry hazards, they seem to me to equate more to the hotel than the left bunker since it is the risk of challenging the right side to get the best angle into the green and navigate the road hole bunker and the "road" that drives the hole's strategy.


Bill Brightly

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2013, 09:16:23 PM »
Ed, maybe someone who really knows the Road Hole at TOC can comment, but when I say that the berm at 190 on our course represents the hotel, I really mean the old railroad shed which has been converted to part of the hotel. My understanding is that the shed is not really a hazard, but something that obscures the landing area. I agree that our three fairway bunkers guard against the preferred angle of attack, just as the original hotel at TOC.


Ronald Montesano

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2013, 06:03:39 AM »
This looks like a beast of a hole, uphill all the way, correct?

Perhaps the best part of the restoration is the removal of John Lyon near the 18th green...that's a win any time!
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

BCrosby

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #16 on: May 03, 2013, 05:35:07 PM »
"I have thought about this a lot and I do not think the "reverse" dogleg diminishes at all from the hole. It changes the look and play of the tee shot, for sure. But once you have hit the fairway, you are left with an approach to the green that is quite similar to The Old Course, IMO."

Ed makes an interesting observation, but there is more to it. Yes, the Stationmaster's Garden 'bunker' is on the wrong side of the fw. But that's not insignificant. That relocation means that it has been de-fanged in the Banks' version and thus of less strategic importance. It will only catch bad players or, in the alternative, it will make playing the hole safely harder. (Which is not good.) OTOH, for good players it won't figure. They will play as far right as they dare to gain a better angle into the green.

One of the many glories of the original RH is that good players who elect to play aggressively must risk the OB associated with the S's G. (Stroke and distance.) The same players can safely ignore the big bad S'sG on the Banks version.

Still, a good hole. But I'm not sure what Banks was thinking when he moved the S'sG substitute to the left side of the fw.

Bob 

Chris_Blakely

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #17 on: May 03, 2013, 06:35:30 PM »
Bill,

How many of the holes have been restored?  When will the work be comple for the entire course?  What is Rees Jones using to restore the course, I noticed the mounds at the road hole bunker that is something I have noticed on other banks courses.

Thanks,

Chris

Bill Brightly

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2013, 10:32:54 PM »
"I have thought about this a lot and I do not think the "reverse" dogleg diminishes at all from the hole. It changes the look and play of the tee shot, for sure. But once you have hit the fairway, you are left with an approach to the green that is quite similar to The Old Course, IMO."

Ed makes an interesting observation, but there is more to it. Yes, the Stationmaster's Garden 'bunker' is on the wrong side of the fw. But that's not insignificant. That relocation means that it has been de-fanged in the Banks' version and thus of less strategic importance. It will only catch bad players or, in the alternative, it will make playing the hole safely harder. (Which is not good.) OTOH, for good players it won't figure. They will play as far right as they dare to gain a better angle into the green.

One of the many glories of the original RH is that good players who elect to play aggressively must risk the OB associated with the S's G. (Stroke and distance.) The same players can safely ignore the big bad S'sG on the Banks version.

Still, a good hole. But I'm not sure what Banks was thinking when he moved the S'sG substitute to the left side of the fw.

Bob  

Bob,

I certainly cannot go point by point with you one the Road Hole at TOC. I would like to learn more about the Stationmaster's Garden "bunker."

But as I have said many times, Macdonald, Raynor and Banks did not copy holes, they copied features. So the hole at Hackensack was never intended to be an exact replica of 17 at St. Andrews. The most striking similarities are the angle of the green,the depth of the green, the placement of the Road Hole Bunker (except Banks made his bunker much larger) and the "road."

Playing the hole safely (three shots to the green) is by no means hard. My photos from the tee are misleading, there is at least 60 yards between the first mound on the left and the second bunker on the left.(I'll try to post a better side view photo of the landing area.) If a player cannot carry the first mound, he is playing from the wrong tee. But it really does obscure the landing area and is a feature that really makes you a little uncomfortable in selecting the proper line.

As you suggest, when playing Hackensack's Road Hole, the good players will go as far right as they dare. But rather than OB, a "feature" that TOC gets away with but is not generally considered good architecture, Banks designed bunkers. And these are TOUGH bunkers. Yesterday I faded my ball too far right and was in the middle bunker and had to play a wedge from 185 just to clear the lip.  Today I hit a good straight drive (from the regular tees,) was one yard short of the last bunker on the right, and had the PERFECT angle to the green. Our assistant pro has abandoned driver, and now plays 3 wood from the tips aiming at the same line I played.

It is much better than a good hole, I can assure you.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 10:39:08 PM by Bill Brightly »

Bill Brightly

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2013, 10:57:57 PM »
Bill,

How many of the holes have been restored? Seven When will the work be comple for the entire course?  I really can;t answer that, I hope we can continue to do two holes per year. What is Rees Jones using to restore the course, Charles Banks' original drawings and many excellent aerial photographs. Lastly,  our superintendent has found the old sand on several greenside bunkers and dutifully restored.. I noticed the mounds at the road hole bunker that is something I have noticed on other banks courses. There are no mounds on the Raod Hole Bunker (front left.) I think you are referring to the mounds beyond the back right side of the green, in front of "The Road". These are exactly what Banks built and are taken from aerial photos. Go to historicaerials.net if you want to see what the course looked like from 1931-1954, then see the changes by the mid 1960's.

Thanks,

Chris

« Last Edit: May 03, 2013, 11:16:01 PM by Bill Brightly »

Bill Brightly

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2013, 10:59:28 AM »
Bob,

So the stationmaster's garden is OB and not a "bunker" at all?

BCrosby

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2013, 11:17:19 AM »
The Stationmaster's Garden was the walled garden maintained by the stationmaster when the St Andrews train station was located where the Old Course Hotel is now. The old wall was retained after the train station was moved to Cupars (?).

It was over that wall that good players tried to find the best angle into the green, though on pain of an O/B if they failed. There was (and is), however, plenty of room to the left for weaker players to play safely. (I say that with great caution. Since Peter Dawson's ideas about how to improve TOC are the only ideas that seem to matter, the Road Hole too may be changed in the next couple of years. Who knows what he is cooking up. So you will want to plan a visit sooner rather than later.)

All of which (other than my Dawson vent) is why I don't get Banks' relocation of his substitute for the S'sG  to the left of the fw. If you are going to tinker with the lay-out of an iconic hole, I would think you would do so to make it more interesting, not less.

Bob

     

Bill Brightly

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2013, 12:20:09 PM »
Bob,

OK, thanks for the explanation of the OB hazard at TOC's Road Hole. (It was neat to learn the derivation of this OB hazard.)  In THAT respect, Banks' version is amazingly faithful to the original. He used three bunkers on the outside of the hole to penalize those who go too far right in an attempt to get the best angle to the green. To the right of those bunkers, Banks left a heavily wooded area which more times than not leads to a lost ball and the same penalty as hitting OB at St. Andrews. So in this case, Banks was actually very true to the original.

The berm on the left of Banks' hole at Hackensack, IMO, represents having to hit a tee ball over the old railroad shed. It is not in play except for a very poor shot. It's main purpose is to obscure the landing area. Is this not also a feature of the Road Hole at TOC?

So as I see it, the biggest variance in Hackensack's Road Hole from TOC is that ours is a dogleg left while TOC has a dogleg right. You might say this is weakness in ours. But I submit that our hole works beautifully, so it is a testament to the greatness of the green complex design that it works on both doglegs! And it works quite nicely on Macdonald's dogleg left at National:



« Last Edit: May 05, 2013, 12:38:55 PM by Bill Brightly »

Chris_Blakely

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2013, 06:10:24 PM »
Bill,

How many of the holes have been restored? Seven When will the work be comple for the entire course?  I really can;t answer that, I hope we can continue to do two holes per year. What is Rees Jones using to restore the course, Charles Banks' original drawings and many excellent aerial photographs. Lastly,  our superintendent has found the old sand on several greenside bunkers and dutifully restored.. I noticed the mounds at the road hole bunker that is something I have noticed on other banks courses. There are no mounds on the Raod Hole Bunker (front left.) I think you are referring to the mounds beyond the back right side of the green, in front of "The Road". These are exactly what Banks built and are taken from aerial photos. Go to historicaerials.net if you want to see what the course looked like from 1931-1954, then see the changes by the mid 1960's.

Thanks,

Chris


Bill,

First and foremost, I refuse to use the multi-colors, just a me thing!! ;D  Second, what I meant on the mounding from the picture you posted is I have seen Charles Banks use that type of mounding before and the restoration looks to match other courses of his that I have seen.

Finally, that you for sharing the photos, the work looks great.

Chris


Mike Policano

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Re: A Road Hole Restored!
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2013, 07:47:23 PM »
Bill,

The pictures look great! I have to drive around the corner and check it out this week. 

For those of you who haven't been there, Hackensack is a Fun course to play and the work being done is excellent. I am really looking forward to seeing the Road Hole and Punchbowl. You all should see the work that was done on the Redan and Biarritz par 3's. Really good stuff.

Cheers, Mike

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