golfclubatlas.com (not like a fine wine...)

[Mac Plumart]

The site always puts up some good content.  You just sometimes have to weed through some non-sense to get there.

Here are some pretty good posts threads from the not to distant past:


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47494.0.html

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,53640.0.html

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,54151.0.html

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55297.0.html
*The link above gets really good at about post #47.*

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55228.msg1279715.html#msg1279715

Ted, that is only after 5 minutes of searching.  There is great content being generated on the site everyday.  But for people who aren't actively engaged in the site on a daily basis, the great threads can be over-looked because the great threads are not always the ones that gather the most posts and replies...therefore they get lost in the archives quickly.

[Scott Warren]

Two of the five links you provide are to your own posts/threads, Mac. So I guess the upshot is that if you post more, this website - and us as its users as a result - will be better off!

Until Ran and/or Ben either moderate the forum more actively or appoint other(s) to do so in their absence, the discussion group isn't going to change. Whether that's a good, bad or indifferent thing will vary from user to user.

We can only assume the way it is is the way Ran and Ben want it to be, or they'd have shaken it up.

[Rich Goodale]

Good and apposite post, Ted

Unfortunately, even most of the finest wines are being manufactured these days for early drinking and then Lethe....

There hasn't been a great thread on this site since "Pizzaman," and as for the endless and mindless photo tours we seem to have forgotten the old adage, " A word is worth 1000 pictures."

Ou est les Ed Bakers d'antan?

Hope all is well

Rich

[John Kavanaugh]

People take a fine wine for granted when it is in ample supply. Only rarity will increase its value. This site has far to many posters who take their privileges for granted. Give me five days and that problem will be solved. Five glorious interesting engaging days to jump start this great site.

No one else has offered a solution. I have offered one of work and sacrifice. Let's get this done.

[Mac Plumart]

Two of the five links you provide are to your own posts/threads, Mac. So I guess the upshot is that if you post more, this website - and us as its users as a result - will be better off!

Uh, Scott...1 of the 5 threads I highlighted was started by me.  And on the one I started, I mentioned it started to get good when Adam Clayman posted on it. Additionally, two of the 5 threads highlighted were started by Ian Andrew.  

FYI...I corrected the wording of my prior post.

[noonan]

People take a fine wine for granted when it is in ample supply. Only rarity will increase its value. This site has far to many posters who take their privileges for granted. Give me five days and that problem will be solved. Five glorious interesting engaging days to jump start this great site.

No one else has offered a solution. I have offered one of work and sacrifice. Let's get this done.

A narcissistic opinion to say the least - to think you have all the answers to this sites ills - the people you would delete would be people with viewpoints opposing yours - shocking

[Scott Warren]

Indeed, it's lamentable that Ian, among others, doesn't post more and that Tom MacWood was taken away from us. Those people ensured the signal at least competed with the noise. Two of the links took me to your posts - that was and is the point of my joke.

If I were the admin of this DG, I'd contact quality posters who have ceased posting or at least are doing so less frequently and try to find out why.

If the admins won't or cant, for whatever reason, be here to provide strong leadership themselves then ensuring a strong network of quality posters would do much of the job for them in keeping the standard of contributions and behaviour where they should be.

But as I said previously, maybe Ran and Ben like it just the way it is.

[David_Elvins]

The simple fact is that if you have been on the DG for 10 years then almost every theory on golf course architecture has been discussed. 

And with a lack of new courses being made, almost every significant course has been discussed. 

There just isn't much left to say. 

[Mac Plumart]

David, with all due respect, there are a ton of topics to discuss.

Loads of renovations, restorations;

Some interesting new courses (Barnbougle, Olympic course, Dismal Doak, China courses, Streamsong, Trump, to name a few);

Maintenance issues;

Equipment impact on the above topics.

[John Kavanaugh]

People take a fine wine for granted when it is in ample supply. Only rarity will increase its value. This site has far to many posters who take their privileges for granted. Give me five days and that problem will be solved. Five glorious interesting engaging days to jump start this great site.

No one else has offered a solution. I have offered one of work and sacrifice. Let's get this done.

A narcissistic opinion to say the least - to think you have all the answers to this sites ills - the people you would delete would be people with viewpoints opposing yours - shocking

That is not true at all. Many of my friends would be deleted who have lost their way.. Ran can reinstate whoever he wishes on the 6th day. Btw, what exactly is a viewpoint differing than mine?   I promise you that I would miss being a member of the site but do not believe anyone can make those hard decisions without leaving themselves. The executioner would be far to great a distraction. That was the root of Tommy's demise.

[Alex Miller]

People take a fine wine for granted when it is in ample supply. Only rarity will increase its value. This site has far to many posters who take their privileges for granted. Give me five days and that problem will be solved. Five glorious interesting engaging days to jump start this great site.

No one else has offered a solution. I have offered one of work and sacrifice. Let's get this done.

A narcissistic opinion to say the least - to think you have all the answers to this sites ills - the people you would delete would be people with viewpoints opposing yours - shocking

That is not true at all. Many of my friends would be deleted who have lost their way.. Ran can reinstate whoever he wishes on the 6th day. Btw, what exactly is a viewpoint differing than mine?   I promise you that I would miss being a member of the site but do not believe anyone can make those hard decisions without leaving themselves. The executioner would be far to great a distraction. That was the root of Tommy's demise.

And on the seventh day... rest?

[Eric Smith]

David, with all due respect, there are a ton of topics to discuss.

Loads of renovations, restorations;

Some interesting new courses (Barnbougle, Olympic course, Dismal Doak, China courses, Streamsong, Trump, to name a few);

Maintenance issues;

Equipment impact on the above topics.

Mac,

Don't forget:

shrimp-kabobs
shrimp creole
shrimp gumbo
Pan fried
deep fried
stir-fried

Then there's:

pineapple shrimp
lemon shrimp
coconut shrimp
pepper shrimp
shrimp soup
shrimp stew
shrimp salad
shrimp and potatoes
shrimp burger
shrimp sandwich

That's about it.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I have been on the site for ten years. I watches it struggle and grow. I find fewer personal attacks than preciously did.  Some the people who left I miss but they were lightening rods.
I have felt that the tone and topics has actually improved.
Yet, I too would like to see someone pull the plug on some threads.
There are a few things that make me nuts. Commenting on a course the writer has never played.  Some speak with authority on courses they have never seen.
Hijacking threads.
Some feel superior to many architects who actually design courses. Recently there was a thread on RTJ jr.  Some dismissed the article out of hand because RTJ couldn't know anything.  The air of superiority on the part of some people makes me want to throw up.

[noonan]

And on the seventh day... rest?

Spot on!

[Lou_Duran]

The simple fact is that if you have been on the DG for 10 years then almost every theory on golf course architecture has been discussed.  

And with a lack of new courses being made, almost every significant course has been discussed.  

There just isn't much left to say.  

Sort of like the guy who finished surfing the internet.

But why spoil it for the newer guys.  A lot of this stuff is fresh, even for the umpteenth time.  Redan, Biaritz, Short, Cape, Bottle.  One can never get enough of this stuff. 

And I know for a fact that tenured members like Goodale gain much satisfaction scanning the elaborate posts offered by the newer folks and rolling their eyes.  I confess to the occasional trip to the virtual dictionary to make sure that what the smart guys toss around make some sense.  I particularly like it when French and Latin phrases are thrown in; poetry and literature citations as well.

Who says that there's not much left to learn?  Was it not the self-nominating sergeant-at-arms who once contributed the great link on how to fold a tee shirt?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An0mFZ3enhM

P.S.-  no, it is not Mr. Goodale who appears in the ad preceding this very useful demonstration; despite renouncing his American roots some years back, he's yet to master the charming British accent.

[John Kavanaugh]

And on the seventh day... rest?

Spot on!

The "rest" of God on the seventh day is mostly misunderstood. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/shabbat1.html  On Shabbat, God created the possibility of renewal, which, in turn, is one of the fundamental teachings of our faith.

[Lou_Duran]

And on the seventh day... rest?

Spot on!

The "rest" of God on the seventh day is mostly misunderstood. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/shabbat1.html  On Shabbat, God created the possibility of renewal, which, in turn, is one of the fundamental teachings of our faith.

You see, I learned something new just now.  BarneyF is a mensch.   

[David_Elvins]

David, with all due respect, there are a ton of topics to discuss.

I am not saying there is not a ton of topics to discuss, I am just saying that anyone who has been here 10-12 years has already discused them.

Loads of renovations, restorations;

Some interesting new courses (Barnbougle, Olympic course, Dismal Doak, China courses, Streamsong, Trump, to name a few);

You have named a few, but unfortunately you have also named almost all of them, some of which are several years old, some of which wont be built for several years.  I have enjoyed the streamsong discussions but if the board is reliant on 5-10 streamsong threads a month until the next Olympics, we are in trouble.  Compare to a few years ago when there were 30-40 new interesting restorations/courses coming out every year.  

Equipment impact on the above topics.

Surely if any one topic has been done to death it is the equipment issue.  

Don't get me wrong, I am not having a go at what people choose to discuss but people's expectations of the board must factor in the two facts I mentioned 1. Most topics have been discussed before and 2. There are few new courses to discuss.

[Matthew Rose]

I have been on the site for ten years. I watches it struggle and grow. I find fewer personal attacks than preciously did.  Some the people who left I miss but they were lightening rods.
I have felt that the tone and topics has actually improved.
Yet, I too would like to see someone pull the plug on some threads.
There are a few things that make me nuts. Commenting on a course the writer has never played.  Some speak with authority on courses they have never seen.
Hijacking threads.
Some feel superior to many architects who actually design courses. Recently there was a thread on RTJ jr.  Some dismissed the article out of hand because RTJ couldn't know anything.  The air of superiority on the part of some people makes me want to throw up.

Thank you for saying this.

If I have any criticism of this forum is that I think it lacks diversity in opinions. If you didn't know better, you'd think there were only about 20 golf courses and 10 designers in the world worth talking about.

I think just in general, the vibe here is just so negative. Everyone is the first to point out things they don't like about a course and the last to praise it. I get the idea that nobody really seems to enjoy playing the game very much if the golf course isn't a Doak 10.

[Dan King]

I'm an old timer. I used to contribute more. The problem is I'm a minimalist, and there is only so much you can say as a minimalist. I just have very little new to ever contribute any more.  Besides I haven't been collecting new quotes and I feel like most everyone has seen all my quotes.

I still lurk, reading probably less than 5 percent of the posts.

Cheers,
Dan King

Whatever anyone may care to say about golf, at least one thing is mercifully certain, namely it is a voluntary affair.
 --Henry Longhurst, 1955

[Rich Goodale]

The simple fact is that if you have been on the DG for 10 years then almost every theory on golf course architecture has been discussed.  

And with a lack of new courses being made, almost every significant course has been discussed.  

There just isn't much left to say.  

Sort of like the guy who finished surfing the internet.

But why spoil it for the newer guys.  A lot of this stuff is fresh, even for the umpteenth time.  Redan, Biaritz, Short, Cape, Bottle.  One can never get enough of this stuff. 

And I know for a fact that tenured members like Goodale gain much satisfaction scanning the elaborate posts offered by the newer folks and rolling their eyes.  I confess to the occasional trip to the virtual dictionary to make sure that what the smart guys toss around make some sense.  I particularly like it when French and Latin phrases are thrown in; poetry and literature citations as well.

Who says that there's not much left to learn?  Was it not the self-nominating sergeant-at-arms who once contributed the great link on how to fold a tee shirt?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=An0mFZ3enhM

P.S.-  no, it is not Mr. Goodale who appears in the ad preceding this very useful demonstration; despite renouncing his American roots some years back, he's yet to master the charming British accent.

Thanks Lou

I don't ROTFLMAOOL very often, but that video did the trick.  Thinking about it, however, makes my brain hurt.

Rich

[Brett_Morrissy]

Ted,
my approach is, like some others, to try to sift thru the posts to read what intrigues me, or what I find stimulating, interesting and can learn from. I find myself drawn to courses/clubs/designers that I have heard of, read about, played or visited, becuase it is easier to form an opinion if I can recall it in person so to speak.

There is still much to discuss and discover, but I wish posters would make better use of the message icon's, so I can avoid stuff if OT. Some of this flies over the head of those that dont live stateside.

Some days, I find myself scanning briefly, as I only have a few minutes to feed this passion, some days I read everything and wonder at the end why I wasted a whole day reading all of that. So far, I love it more than I hate it.

My favourite 'recent' thread and the kind of thread topic that can generate many more topic threads AND posts using similar or individual DG's favourites - but it takes a lot of work and commitment to see it thru - thanks for all the good stuff!
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,46829.0.html

[Connor Dougherty]

There have been plenty of suggestions as to how to improve discussions on this site in this thread and we should be looking at those to improve the quality of this discussion board.

Connor

[Frank Pont]

The site always puts up some good content.  You just sometimes have to weed through some non-sense to get there.

Here are some pretty good posts threads from the not to distant past:


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,47494.0.html

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,53640.0.html

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,54151.0.html

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55297.0.html
*The link above gets really good at about post #47.*

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,55228.msg1279715.html#msg1279715

Ted, that is only after 5 minutes of searching.  There is great content being generated on the site everyday.  But for people who aren't actively engaged in the site on a daily basis, the great threads can be over-looked because the great threads are not always the ones that gather the most posts and replies...therefore they get lost in the archives quickly.

Mac, would it make sense to have a seperate section where one could read these "best of" threads. Like many others I have limited time to browse the subjects at GCA and therefore have missed many of the great posts. One could also even classify them in a number of general subjects. Would alos provide great reading for people new to the field of golf course architecture.

The other thing I had thought about is to create a list of great quotes. I have read so many great quotes by the likes of Doak, Andrew, Mingay, Clayton etc etc and it would be great if someone or a group of volunteers would try collecting them. That in it self would be a great treasure (and potentially a great book to give to friends!)

[Ian Andrew]

I began in 1999 and found the site an amazing source of information and a great place to ask provocative questions about the more grey areas of architecture for me. I loved the insight and the “research” that many did to answer the questions for me. Pat Mucci used to be so much more interesting before he discovered green/bold type. The learning curve, combined with my desire to change and improve, made the site a massive draw for most of my attention through the early years.

Ted,

It’s all still there, but the problem is the daily content is at least 100 times what it was back then and many great thoughts and ideas quickly die or are lost in the constant churn of “quick information and quick remarks.”

The site went from a discussion group to a version of facebook. I know way too much about many of your political opinions and very little about your knowledge of architecture. But this is the fate of every internet discussion site as it gets more popular and there is no turning back.

One answer is moderation, but that will never happen, the other is removing key people to focus the content.