[Brent Hutto]

I played recently at the course where I learned the game circa 1994-2005. Common Bermuda wall to wall on the greens, fairways and roughs.

I had one putt from the back of a (tiny) green that was down a slope so steep that at my current club a ball placed on the ground would have rolled 40 feet to the front of the green and probably kept rolling 10-15 yards into the fairway. It was about 20 feet to the hole. I hit it about as hard as a severely uphill 20-footer on my usual greens and it stopped after about eight feet. Damndest thing I've ever seen. Gave it a good hard whack from there and got it within a foot of the hole.

I always thought the grain tended to run downhill but this was like putting into one of those toothed contraptions that puncture your tires if you try to drive backwards into a multistory car park.

What's funny is, I played over a thousand rounds on those greens when I started out and just thought that's what putting was all about. Occasionally made a 20, 30, 40 footer for that matter. Sure makes me appreciate the greens at my club every time a 20-foot putt rolls out perfectly at about the pace I would walk to the hole.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

I stand corrected we have 20 year old Tif dwarf on our greens at Texarkana CC.

[Lou_Duran]

I stand corrected we have 20 year old Tif dwarf on our greens at Texarkana CC.

Yours are the best Tifdwarf I ever putted on.  Which makes me wonder if it is not a superior grass than the ultradwarfs if the club has to be budget conscious.  I don't remember who at the club told me they were Champion, but they putted well enough that it was believable.

Regarding Woodforest in Houston, Greg Clark is right.  They are TifEagle.  The GM reports that the course is in the best condition that it has been in the 10 years he's been there.  That says a lot because the conditions when I played it in Jan. were outstanding.  The Houston guys might want to go have a look.

[Bill_McBride]

I stand corrected we have 20 year old Tif dwarf on our greens at Texarkana CC.

Yours are the best Tifdwarf I ever putted on.  Which makes me wonder if it is not a superior grass than the ultradwarfs if the club has to be budget conscious.  I don't remember who at the club told me they were Champion, but they putted well enough that it was believable.

Regarding Woodforest in Houston, Greg Clark is right.  They are TifEagle.  The GM reports that the course is in the best condition that it has been in the 10 years he's been there.  That says a lot because the conditions when I played it in Jan. were outstanding.  The Houston guys might want to go have a look.

I love the Tifdwarf at Pensacola CC - so long as we don't overseed for the summer.  When we did that it was a bad thing twice a year, spring and fall. 

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Bill,
We found the exact same thing, eachtime we tried to oversedd the ingrowth was terribly delayed and the greens never appeared to reach their top notch level.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,
We found the exact same thing, eachtime we tried to oversedd the ingrowth was terribly delayed and the greens never appeared to reach their top notch level.

You are far enough north that I'll bet there is a lot of support for overseeding.   There's always a faction that lives in fear of a hard freeze killing the greens.

[Anthony_Nysse]

The following suggests verticutting 2-4 times per month in the growing season.

http://text.lsuagcenter.com/en/lawn_garden/commercial_horticulture/turfgrass/golf_course_management/Managing+Ultradwarf+Greens.htm

Perhaps what I referred to earlier (3-4 x per week) is brushing and grooming.  I'll ask Tony Nysse for his input.

I am a little late to this discussion regarding ultradwarf management. I think something that a lot of golfers get confused with is "grooming/brushing" and verticutting.
  True verticutting  is where the verticutters are set to going INTO the turf canopy. The blades are set up BELOW the bedknives of the cutting units. Many Superintendents groom greens with the verticutters, but they are set at flush. These are usually used because of the absence of groomers. Groomers and brushes are intended to work on the surface, removing steams and fat leaf blades. Verticutters are designed to create channels for sand to be placed into.
  Most Superintendents will do some sort of brushing/grooming 3-4x a week. A true verticut is done every 2-3 weeks. Putting surfaces counld not handle being verticut 3-4x a week throughout the growing season. It's just too aggressive.
  There is a new phrase being used now called "vertigroom" which is grooming the green surface with the vericutting units. This is a common practice, but not nearly as aggressive as a true verticut. We verticut 8-10x a year at Pine Tree. We groom and brush so much more. We aerify 2x with large tines on tight spacing.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

Thanks for the information Tony...always great to read the facts from the real people in the field.

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