News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 10
Re: Is the Death of the Regional Architect next?
« Reply #50 on: June 14, 2021, 07:02:34 AM »

Jerry Matthews was the master of this in MI. Other than a few, 99% of his work was in MI. (Not sure that's even regional, then?)




Well, one of the other reasons for "the death of the regional golf architect" is that there is more information available to developers today -- not many of them are looking in the Yellow Pages to decide whom to call.  Thirty years ago, they actually did!  There's a whole world of people who want to design your golf course, and just picking the same guy who built one down the road will be questioned a lot more than it once was.


But if you like holes with three mounds behind every green, Jerry is your man!

Jaeger Kovich

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Is the Death of the Regional Architect next?
« Reply #51 on: June 14, 2021, 07:23:18 AM »
For whatever it’s worth, I’ve made a living working between Philly, Long Island and Massachusetts the last 2 years. Sometimes I drive 20 min, sometimes 4-5 hrs and have taken a ferry to work too, but with a gazillion great courses in the Met/Gap/New England region I find myself to be rather lucky to be a regional-ish architect.

Anthony_Nysse

  • Total Karma: 0
Re: Is the Death of the Regional Architect next?
« Reply #52 on: June 14, 2021, 08:02:59 AM »

Jerry Matthews was the master of this in MI. Other than a few, 99% of his work was in MI. (Not sure that's even regional, then?)




Well, one of the other reasons for "the death of the regional golf architect" is that there is more information available to developers today -- not many of them are looking in the Yellow Pages to decide whom to call.  Thirty years ago, they actually did!  There's a whole world of people who want to design your golf course, and just picking the same guy who built one down the road will be questioned a lot more than it once was.


But if you like holes with three mounds behind every green, Jerry is your man!


Funny you should say that. Every Turfgrass student at MSU takes a semester on design in their 2nd year. After a summer at Friars Head, I designed a hole with a blind(ish) approach. The JM associate that was teaching that class deducted me for having a blind hole & asked where the containment mounding was behind the green. (no joke)
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

Tom_Doak

  • Total Karma: 10
Re: Is the Death of the Regional Architect next?
« Reply #53 on: June 14, 2021, 08:33:11 AM »

But if you like holes with three mounds behind every green, Jerry is your man!


Funny you should say that. Every Turfgrass student at MSU takes a semester on design in their 2nd year. After a summer at Friars Head, I designed a hole with a blind(ish) approach. The JM associate that was teaching that class deducted me for having a blind hole & asked where the containment mounding was behind the green. (no joke)




No, it's no joke.  One of his associates [probably the same one you are referring to] told one of my guys years ago that EVERY GREEN HAD TO HAVE three mounds holding it up.


I ruled myself out for teaching that class when I came down to recruit a couple of interns to help build High Pointe, and after hearing the professor tell the class that the bigger the budget, the more money they would make, I said that my clients sure wouldn't want to hear that.  :D

Jeff_Brauer

  • Total Karma: 3
Re: Is the Death of the Regional Architect next?
« Reply #54 on: June 14, 2021, 09:51:07 AM »
That takes me back to my Killian and Nugent days, when Ken in particular liked 3 mounds behind every green.  At one point, another associate and myself concocted a plan in a Monday morning office meeting to consciously vary that.  We prepared a chart figuring we would have 3 greens each at 0, 1 (one center, one each offset each way, etc.) 2, 3, 4, and 5.  They agreed it was important to vary the style and we drew the plan set that way.  (This was for the George Dunne golf course in SW Chicago area).


However, when it came to their first field visit, Ken looked at green no. 1, which actually had one mound, and said to break them up into three, on a 2 mound green, he suggested breaking them into 3.  He liked the 3 mound green.  But, when we got to a 4 mound green, he thought they should be simplified...and so it went.


I also recall building Lake Arrowhead (now just down the street from Sand Valley) and the 11th green had such a perfect backdrop of dark pines, I left it as a skyline green, and Ken came for a visit and wondered where the mounds were. 


It wasn't just mounds, as those 50's trained guys really only used sand bunkers, mounds, rough and trees as their design palette.  I tried putting a grass bunker on the front right of a green in Texas.  They let it go, thinking the construction crew simply hadn't tiled it yet.  But, when it was finished, they said "We don't use grass bunkers" even though the shaping was kind of cool.


Ditto, on my last project with them (actually Ken, because they had just split up) and knowing I was going on my own, I started experimenting with "mound theory" on a remodel for Jim Colbert.   On one green, I pushed the mound back off the green, creating a little valley behind the green, and it was angled so the top skylines of those mounds crossed.  Naturally, it gave the green great depth and standing on the tee (it was a par 3) Ken said it looked great.  When we got to the green, Colbert liked the break from not chipping downhill if you overshot the green.  His superintendent liked less water draining on the green surface from the surrounds.  Ken made kind of a fool of himself arguing to change it when the whole team liked it.  His only reason was, "We put the mounds right behind the green, dammit!"  And, that is the story of how I ended up doing a half a dozen courses with/for Jim Colbert and at least twice as many renovations.


As Tom said, in most cities, clients get the sense when one style of design becomes too prevalent. It's even worse when the local architect insistently repeats themselves.

Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach