Augusta: member guest vs the pros satisfaction and challenge?

[Brett_Morrissy]

One of the posts  by Brent Hutto on the Adam Scott final rd thread, had me wondering about the balance with this course design. Here is the post:

How many GIR did Adam Scott hit on the week while shooting -9 on soft greens? In the exceptional case of Augusta National I think bemoaning his 7-iron and wedge approaches is misplaced. Yes even a wet-fairway 7,400 yards is very short of an Adam Scott level player. But Augusta National defends itself very nicely, thank you, even when being "too short" and even with some of the greens are less menacing than on a very dry week.

That said, one valid potential complaint is that not every course can be Augusta National. My own club has pretty tricky greens and we can tuck the pins, roll them, yada, yada. But our course at 7,400 would be a pushover for Adam Scott. Absent the type of architectural, setup and maintenance quality available at ANGC the general case for 7,400 yards being "too short" for elite players may be justified.

In a sense, Augusta and potentially Merion might be thought of as the proverbial "exception that proves the rule". By "proves" I mean tests, as in "Just how perfectly designed, constructed and maintained do green complexes have to be in order to provide a fair test to PGA Tour players in 2013?"...

I am going to base this on the assumption that we agree the course plays relatively short for a player/pro of Scott's calibre, the challenge of the course (& par if you wish) is protected by the outstanding greens and surrounds,design, pin positions and features. Try to remove the maintenance levels from the argument - as it is solely a financial benefit - or rather, without the maintenance levels does the same apply?

So, how does it play for the members and guests - is it really difficult, do members and guests "play to their handicap" there (as a bench mark, is Sergio at 10th best score of -3, close to "handicap"?) to  assuming they are not playing off the championship tees? Does the design and length make for a fun golf course or is it a beast?

Is it really that difficult to build a shorter course with such great challenge? The US Open set upset Merion I imagine will be quite different to how the members would normally or prefer to play their course. Whereas in my limited knowledge, ANGC is pretty much set up like that for the rest of the season?

If AGNC makes for a fun, challenging and enjoyable 'home' club, then maybe it is ideal?
I would guess that members at other Mackenzie designs feel this about their clubs (thinking RMGC, CPC, Crystal, Pasatiempo) - do you agree?

Why can't every new course be an Augusta National (removing the maintenance levels as criteria) from a purely architectural point of view?

[Wayne_Kozun]

I would think that some of the holes would be very difficult for those that can't hit the ball high, like women or seniors.  Look at #12 - I don't know what yardage members play the hole at but that green isn't very deep.  Imagine hitting that shot with a long iron or hybrid when you can't hit the ball very high.  Same thing with  #4 although the back of that green is less penal.

I wonder what club Condi hits at #12?

I would think that the greens would also be quite a challenge for the high handicapper who would have lots of 3 jacks.

But I would sure love to see for myself.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Brett,

The course plays about 1,000 yards shorter for members and guests, from the member's tees.

In the times I was there, I observed women teeing up from where the fairway began.
Don't know if they've added additional forward tees.

[Wayne_Kozun]

@Pat - how long does #12 play for as the members?  I didn't notice any forward tee blocks, do members use the same tee blocks as are used for the Masters?