[Joe Bentham]

http://registerguard.com/rg/sports/outdoors/29676481-80/bandon-state-area-dunes-keiser.html.csp

[Craig Sweet]

The article starts out promising and then pretty much sticks to how this proposal will or won't benefit humans. It even goes so far as to say the land that Keiser wants is hardly ever visited by humans.  But the last time I checked, natural areas are set aside for NON HUMANS and the area seems to have lots of non human residents and visitors.

The next time someone says you never hear the peeper frogs at night anymore, or you never see any of those birds around here anymore, its because people have run them off their habitat for golf courses, shopping centers, housing tracts...all in the name of greed.

[Jeff Taylor]

We are just as natural as any other creature on this planet. Curtail the greed of the beaver when changing the landscape to suit it's purpose and then get back to me.

[Jud_T]

If we kill off the entire human race just think how great the planet will be!  A bit of perspective:  Approximately 95% of the U.S.' land remains undeveloped.

[Alex Miller]

Carla Smith's comments exude "class." While not the quality of the Bandon Resort courses, Bandon Crossings is a fun and interesting track and priced as such. I hope this muni complex is a good thing for Bandon Crossings and if I spend a day playing the muni course(s) Bandon Crossings would seem the perfect compliment after 18 or 36 to just relax with beer in hand in cart.

[Jon Wiggett]

Nice to see some of the well balanced views of some on this forum

Jeff,

if all we were doing was to ensure our daily survival then you might have a valid point about the beaver but I fail to see how much of what we do do is for daily survival. Having said that, if done with proper consideration then it could be at least neutral with its impact on the natural environment.

I am surprised that Mr. Keiser has never dropped in on his neighbour to say hello. If the project does not go ahead maybe the Bandon Resort could work with Bandon Crossings to create their vision?

Jon

[Jeff Taylor]

Yes, I went over the top a little, but to make a point. However, daily survival eliminates the need for even 1 golf course and hence, the need for this forum. As for well balanced, that is a matter of definition.

I hope you can expand on this thought: "Having said that, if done with proper consideration then it could be at least neutral with its impact on the natural environment." How can building a golf course have a neutral impact on the natural environment? Clearing one shrub to make a tee box can hardly be neutral. Which environment are we talking about? Did NGLA disturb the natural environment or did it create a new natural environment?

I responded to a statement that I felt could not be defended. Funny, I never thought of food, clothing, and shelter as having no value beyond serving someone's greed. Should we not build a home so that we might preserve a bird call? I await a well balanced response.

[Jon Wiggett]

Correct Jeff, we don't need golf courses to survive where as a beaver builds a dam in order to survive so your point was a little bit over the top in an 'atom bomb to kill a fly' sort of way.

In order to have a neutral effect on the environment a golf course needs to undertake mitigating action to balance out the overall picture. This is something that is done already in many lands around the world. Neutral does not mean not effecting/disturbing anything.

I would be interested in knowing what statement you felt could not be defended and also what NGLA has to do with it.

Jon

[Connor Dougherty]

Yes, I went over the top a little, but to make a point. However, daily survival eliminates the need for even 1 golf course and hence, the need for this forum. As for well balanced, that is a matter of definition.

I hope you can expand on this thought: "Having said that, if done with proper consideration then it could be at least neutral with its impact on the natural environment." How can building a golf course have a neutral impact on the natural environment? Clearing one shrub to make a tee box can hardly be neutral. Which environment are we talking about? Did NGLA disturb the natural environment or did it create a new natural environment?

I responded to a statement that I felt could not be defended. Funny, I never thought of food, clothing, and shelter as having no value beyond serving someone's greed. Should we not build a home so that we might preserve a bird call? I await a well balanced response.

Jeff,
I do think there are ways to make a golf course have a neutral effect on the environment. It may apply to your definition of NGLA having a "new natural environment," but introducing golf courses can often create a barrier between predators and the species being protected that are beneficial to the animals in question. Such is the case at Sharp Park, where environmentalists have been pushing to rid of the golf course despite all scientific evidence pointing to the golf course being beneficial to the species in question (helps keep predators out and the maintenance practices for the course are all organic). In fact, the construction of the seawall and the golf course are really the reason the frog and snake have that habitat.

I don't mean to say that the area in question is going to be beneficial for the species involved (Even after reading the article, there's not nearly enough information) but we should not be rushing to conclusions. That would be like saying the construction of Machrihanish Dunes was incredibly harmful for the environment based on the environmental impact from Trump International Golf Links.

[Emile Bonfiglio]

Thanks for posting Joe. As an Oregonian I can say it is amazing that Mr. K has been able to accomplish what he has in the great state. In my town if I want to cut down a tree or remove a shrub I have to apply for a permit, wait 30 days and if 1 neighbor wants me to keep it...we go before a public hearing....this article shows me nothing new about the process.

[Jeff Taylor]

Correct Jeff, we don't need golf courses to survive where as a beaver builds a dam in order to survive so your point was a little bit over the top in an 'atom bomb to kill a fly' sort of way.

In order to have a neutral effect on the environment a golf course needs to undertake mitigating action to balance out the overall picture. This is something that is done already in many lands around the world. Neutral does not mean not effecting/disturbing anything.

I would be interested in knowing what statement you felt could not be defended and also what NGLA has to do with it.

Jon

Thanks for responding Jon. The statement I referred to dealt with human creations for greed and that those creations are harmful to the environment. The history of NGLA is well known. The land they found was hardly what it looks like today. Should we call that natural or does what we see today qualify as natural? Obviously a beaver dam is natural but it hardly looks like what was there before it (which some would argue as natural). Definitions drive this discussion. I only wish to include human activity into the equation. There are plenty of examples where the environmental goal is to remove the human fingerprint from the landscape. I disagree. As for mitigation balancing out the overall picture, that regulatory standard is a bit too subjective for my taste. I understand we have to start somewhere but mitigation is not the same thing as what was previously "undisturbed".

[Paul Gray]

We are just as natural as any other creature on this planet. Curtail the greed of the beaver when changing the landscape to suit it's purpose and then get back to me.

Or, persuade me that beaver are highly intelligent beings with self awareness and then get back to me.

[Craig Van Egmond]

We are just as natural as any other creature on this planet. Curtail the greed of the beaver when changing the landscape to suit it's purpose and then get back to me.

Or, persuade me that beaver are highly intelligent beings with self awareness and then get back to me.

Beavers kill!!!   http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20130411/NEWS02/130411028

[Jeff Taylor]

Not only are strict environmental regulations required to reign in the beaver, thorough background checks should be implemented as well.

[William_G]

No doubt that you only need to look at Bandon Dunes Resort to see a massive public benefit to the local economy.

Bandon Crossings was built subsequent to and because of the success of Bandon Dunes, Rex Smith is the golfer(podiatrist) in the family while his wife is the mover/shaker. For those in the area that want golf in a golf cart, Crossings is it!

It should all work out well for everyone and Bandon Muni will be built.

[William_G]

Preliminary deall in place 

http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-tours-news/blogs/local-knowledge/2013/05/mike-keiser-gets-land-needed-to-create-bandon-muni.html

congrats to Mike Keiser and everyone else involved including the late Howard McKee

[Brad Klein]

It's not quite a deal, but some common ground has been found: http://golfweek.com/news/2013/may/16/bandon-dunes-municipal-course-plans/

[Ulrich Mayring]

I don't understand. It is supposed to be a municipal project, so surely the land must be owned and the golf course operated by the municipality. But the article says that Mike Keiser needs land from the municipality and will himself own and operate the course. So what exactly is municipal about this project? Isn't the resort operating under the same public pay & play scheme?

Ulrich

[Ross Harmon]

The difference with Bandon "Muni" is that 9 holes each day will be set aside for Bandon (or area) residents only and they will pay a substantially cut rate. That said, I hate the name and seriously hope they figure out something better.

[Ulrich Mayring]

And the other 18 holes are for tourists, who pay resort prices?

I wonder whether locals won't feel exactly the opposite: that 18 holes are reserved for tourists and they are stuck with a 9 holer.

Ulrich

[Jud_T]

Ulrich,

They'll be free to pay the tourist prices like the rest of us if they so choose.

[Steve Lang]

Carla Smith's comments exude "class." While not the quality of the Bandon Resort courses, Bandon Crossings is a fun and interesting track and priced as such. I hope this muni complex is a good thing for Bandon Crossings and if I spend a day playing the muni course(s) Bandon Crossings would seem the perfect compliment after 18 or 36 to just relax with beer in hand in cart.

Alex,  when we played BD couple years ago the caddies for the other two guys with us said they liked Bandon Crossing for exactly those last 9 words in your post.. "to just relax with beer in hand in cart." 

we toured BC, which the guy behind the counter thought was a little odd, but said sure take a cart ..  I'd hate to see the new muni hurt BC's play..

[Ulrich Mayring]

Jud,

if the locals were willing to pay tourist prices, they would not play Bandon Muni, but one of the resort courses - something which they can already do now. So I guess what it comes down to for the locals is that Bandon Muni is a 9 hole course. Much appreciated as an additional option, no doubt, but not really "municipal" in the usual sense.

Ulrich

[William_G]

Carla Smith's comments exude "class." While not the quality of the Bandon Resort courses, Bandon Crossings is a fun and interesting track and priced as such. I hope this muni complex is a good thing for Bandon Crossings and if I spend a day playing the muni course(s) Bandon Crossings would seem the perfect compliment after 18 or 36 to just relax with beer in hand in cart.

Alex,  when we played BD couple years ago the caddies for the other two guys with us said they liked Bandon Crossing for exactly those last 9 words in your post.. "to just relax with beer in hand in cart."  

we toured BC, which the guy behind the counter thought was a little odd, but said sure take a cart ..  I'd hate to see the new muni hurt BC's play..

The new 27 holes across the highway from Crossings will only help Crossings.
No doubt it is cartish golf due to routing, but it is already a good deal and as more people visit southern Oregon, the better for everyone.

[Jud_T]

Ulrich,

If I were a local I'd be pretty pumped about having an additional rotating 9 designed by Gil Hanse at reasonable rates.

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