A neglected feature?

[Don_Mahaffey]

Reading Grant Sanders' thread on Waihi GC, NZ, I was drawn to the photos of the 17th hole.
I like the occasional hole where the ground may fall away, and the green, or front of the green may be blind, usually calling for a bumped in approach. I like the idea of needing to land your ball in an area you can not see. I understand the need, more like desire, for visibility, but is this an underused feature in golf?




From behind the 2nd at Western Gailes. I remember standing in the fwy and only seeing the top of the flag. I thought it looked great.  

[Jeff_Brauer]

I agree.  Pete Dye has done a few of these, no?

[Ally Mcintosh]

Love this feature.

Brings an element of anxiety in to the shot and is the best way to ensure ground game in conditions that don't always call for it.

Used sparingly however - can't be hiding every green after all.

[Ross Tuddenham]

I also like this feature as long as long as the players judgement and shot execution still play a part in the shot.  It is a little boring if shots of all weights and trajectories roll down the bank to the same gathering point.

Some good examples I can think of are the 5th at St Andrews beach and 7th at silloth.  Would the 14th at North Berwick count as an extreme example?

[Will Lozier]

The best example of this neat feature for me is Deal's 15th and even 3rd (although as a 5-par, a wedge is often carried all the way into the bowl. 

Cheers

[Chris DeNigris]

14th at Cruden Bay? 

[Ben Voelker]

Wakonda Club in Des Moines, Iowa has a hole with this feature if I remember correctly.  I think its the 12th hole.

Correction: It looks like its the 11th hole.

From their website:

http://www.wakondaclub.com/Golf-2/Wakonda-Club/11.aspx

[Daryn_Soldan]

Don,

I like the fact that this feature often requires a shot that carries to the edge or just over the drop-off. We see holes that require carries over bunkers, rough, water, etc... but judging the weight and trajectory of a shot challenging this feature may require the most skill of all. I grew up on a course where the approach to the long par 4 12th, since softened, was similar. Always exciting to see where shots that bounded over the rise ended up.

I also vividly remember playing a tournament at the Country Club of Lincoln, NE and standing on the 11th green - par 5, same feature. Someone in the group behind launched an approach from long-range that landed perfectly on the downslope short of the green, shot forward and connected squarely with my head. After getting up and stopping the bleeding, I remember thinking what a strategic feature that was

- Daryn

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

One of the front nine holes at Fishers Island would be the extreme example of this would it not...number three or four perhaps?
http://www.golfclubatlas.com/courses-by-country/usa/fishers-island-club/

Indeed number four

[Paul Gray]

Yep, love the half hidden hole, just so long as some clown hasn't been along and stuck a bunker en route 

Utterly bizarrely, I've always loved the extra long flags you often have on such holes. A strange little quirk I know.

[Thomas Dai]

Half hidden greens are just fine by me. Best used sparingly though.

All the best.

[George Freeman]

Utterly bizarrely, I've always loved the extra long flags you often have on such holes. A strange little quirk I know.

Paul - for some reason I too have always enjoyed the extra long flags on holes that need one.  Maybe not so strange!

[Carl Johnson]

I like a hole of that sort myself.  No. 5, a shortish par 4 (309 yds.) at the Grassy Creek golf club in Spruce Pine, N.C., is that sort of hole.  The green is blind from the tee, and for normal players also on the second shot.  Long hitters could reach the green off the tee.  Shorter hitters play their second from a relatively level area downhill to a blind green.  It's a small green.  You can either loft your second onto the green, or chip one partway down the hill and let it roll onto the green, which is what I prefer.  I enjoy playing the hole.

[Jon Wiggett]

Moray Old has a great one on the back 9 with a track crossing about 20 yards in front of the green and a really funky green. Niall C can probably comment more on this hole. My second is also a good example of this.

Jon

[Paul Gray]

Utterly bizarrely, I've always loved the extra long flags you often have on such holes. A strange little quirk I know.

Paul - for some reason I too have always enjoyed the extra long flags on holes that need one.  Maybe not so strange!

No George, it just means we're both a little odd. 

[Patrick Kiser]

The 5th at Claremont CC here in the Bay Area has this and it works really well.

I bumped a 9i from about 100 out and I watched the ball disappear then barely reappear rolling towards a low pin in the front of the green.  Just a very cool feeling.

Approach about 110 yards out:


Close up short of the green shows the falloff:


From left:


Looking back from right of green:

[mike_beene]

At least from back in the fairway this is how 1 at Oakmont feels to me although the hill may be a little steeper.

[Patrick Kiser]

I'll add one of the greatest examples of combining this feature (not the only hole there) with deceptive camouflaging might well be ... the 13th at St.George's.  At least for me.  Call it a double feature...

Not only do you get this blind drop to the green, but from the fairway on your approach ... you're completely fooled into thinking the 17th green in the distance is your actual 13th green.  The fairway blends in perfectly to create this affect.  Simply brilliant in my opinion.

Kyle and Joe to the rescue for a couple of photos.  Perhaps Kyle or Joe can post one from the fairway showing the approach:

http://xchem.villanova.edu/~bausch/images/albums/stgeorges/pages/page_85.html

[Sean_A]

The 5th at Claremont CC here in the Bay Area has this and it works really well.

I bumped a 9i from about 100 out and I watched the ball disappear then barely reappear rolling towards a low pin in the front of the green.  Just a very cool feeling.

Approach about 110 yards out:

Patrick

Extend that green another 3 yards right and the illusion is perfected. 


These shots don't have to be blind to be very effective.  One of the best I know is Huntercombe's 2nd. Trying to guess the landing zone is what makes golf fun.


The ones which can really catch players out are those that are downhill, blind, but with dead ground - so the ball will not roll.  Now you have to get a carry yardage for the green, but figure out how much to ease off because of it being downhill.  This can be quite a bit harder than just hitting in a flat shot and letting it roll out. Witness Church Stretton

 

Ciao