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Jim Colton


Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2013, 11:23:26 AM »
For the most part I have to agree with Mr. Peper. I'd much rather carry my bag or take a trolley as I do in the UK than pay a 40-something $100 to carry my bag and give me Bushnell readings.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Chuck Glowacki

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2013, 11:26:38 AM »
I would like to see Mr. Pepper play NGLA without a elevator operator.  5 1/2 hour round anyone?

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2013, 11:34:46 AM »
NGLA is no more confusing or difficult than dozens of UK courses with blind shots and tricky greens. Golfers at those courses don't take four hours on average to play, much less 5½... they would be banned if they did! My experience is that groups with caddies do not necessarily play faster, because the players are often in full "tournament" mode grinding over every putt with the caddies help. It can be painful to endure sometimes.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2013, 11:39:13 AM »
Good caddies are nice, but they are a luxury item.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Stephen Davis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 11:40:48 AM »
Good caddies are nice, but they are a luxury item.

This is how I view caddies. It is very fun to have them, but a "luxury item" is the perfect description.

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2013, 11:44:09 AM »
Good caddies are nice, but they are a luxury item.

+1
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2013, 11:54:10 AM »
Good caddies are nice, but they are a luxury item.

+1

As are Cadi-llacs.  ;) ;D

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2013, 11:54:52 AM »
Disappointing perspective indeed.

The costs appear to be the problem. I'd agree if all you are getting from your caddy is yardages and Bullshit reads.

The last paragraph is indeed the saddest of all.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2013, 12:13:37 PM »
The last paragraph makes me want to puke.
H.P.S.

Jason Thurman

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2013, 12:19:05 PM »
I'm with him most of the way. I'd rather walk and carry than take a cart, but all else being equal, I'd probably rather take the cart than the caddie most of the time. There are two exceptions:

1. When it's an Evans Scholar program or something similar. I have no problem with giving a kid a bit of money.

2. When I really want to see the course and a caddie is the only option. I'll take a caddie over a cart at Pinehurst, but I won't visit them nearly as often as places that let me sling my own bag on my shoulder.

Professional caddies are a wet blanket.
"There will always be haters. That’s just the way it is. Hating dudes marry hating women and have hating ass kids." - Evan Turner

Some of y'all have never been called out in bold green font and it really shows.

Brent Hutto

Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2013, 12:30:37 PM »
The last paragraph makes me want to puke.

I've never been clear on why someone who is "just about the shots" doesn't spend his time on a driving range or on one of those computerized deals where you hit ball into a canvas and Pebble Beach is projected along with a CGI image of your shot. That is about the most know-nothing comment I'd ever care to see from a much published writer like Mr. Peper.

Emile Bonfiglio

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2013, 12:30:49 PM »
I like the idea of a forecaddie on courses that can be difficult for the first timer. I used one the first time I played each of the Bandon courses as well as chambers Bay. After that, no need in my opinion.

I will say that there is a very cool feeling about strolling down a fairway free of any bag or cart, you feel like a pro for a minute until you hit your next shot fat and leave it short sided in the bunker.

Locally a few of the Portland City Owned courses have started a caddie program and produced some great results. http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2013/03/madison_high_students_in_north.html

You can follow me on twitter @luxhomemagpdx or instagram @option720

astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2013, 12:32:32 PM »
.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2013, 11:44:18 PM by astavrides »

Brent Hutto

Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2013, 12:33:11 PM »
Probably because I play about 1,000 rounds carrying my own bag for every round with a caddie, my sense the experience is different. Sauntering down the fairway without my bag the predominant feeling is "Where are my clubs?". Then when I stop walking and stand around woolgathering for a couple minutes until my double-bagging caddie finishes with his other client, my main thought is "Where the HELL are my clubs?". It definitely makes a difference in the golf experience, I'll grant...

Craig Van Egmond

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #15 on: April 05, 2013, 01:22:43 PM »

Everyone should have the experience of a good caddie at least once.  No one should be forced to take one.

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2013, 01:25:30 PM »
I just cannot get comfortable with the idea of hiring someone just to carry my bag. Never did and probably never will. And if I am playing a new course, figuring things out by myself is something I enjoy doing.

BHoover

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #17 on: April 05, 2013, 01:35:37 PM »
The last paragraph of the article is disappointing.  That said, I do disagree with the concept of mandatory caddie or cart.  I believe that walking is an integral part of the game, and golfers always should have the option of carrying their own bags or even using a pushcart (I still don't understand why pushcarts are acceptable inthe UK and Australia, but they are considered taboo here in the USA.)  I think caddies are a luxury (one that, quite frankly, is above my paygrade, particularly at this point in my life). 

If I'm playing PV or Merion, yeah I might want to experience the course with a caddie for the first time.  But the choice should be mine.  I think that Bandon has the correct model.  Offer caddies to those who want to take them, but allow carrying and pushcarts as well.

My former club generally allowed carrying, but it was restricted for members over 35 (and guests were automatically charged a cart fee).  On weekend mornings before 10:00, you could carry if you wanted, but if there were caddies available and you were 35 or older, you were charged a $10 trail fee.  That policy really bothered me.  As a member at an equity club, I think I should be able to decide whether to take a caddie or carry without being charged some arbitrary fee.     

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #18 on: April 05, 2013, 01:36:48 PM »
Spread the wealth apparently is a NIMBY principle.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Brent Hutto

Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #19 on: April 05, 2013, 01:39:04 PM »
My favorite way of seeing a new course is by playing it along with someone who knows it well.

On my 2010 trip to England I was scheduled to play a round at Royal St. Georges. I had walked the course several times as a spectator but never played there. I could have hired a caddie but there was a mention on the welcome letter (E-mail) saying that arrangements could be made for someone from the professional's staff to accompany visitors.

So I called and made an appointment with one of the assistant professionals and we played the course together. I asked him to hit first on each tee and let me see the ball flight as an indication of the best line to choose. It was a much more enjoyable round than my typical caddie experiences have been. The only drawback was toting my own little carry bag, which I normally do every round anyway. I guess we also had to rake our own bunkers.

Brent Hutto

Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2013, 01:42:01 PM »
[retracted]
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 01:50:29 PM by Brent Hutto »

Michael Whitaker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2013, 01:55:38 PM »
Spread the wealth apparently is a NIMBY principle.

If I were wealthy and cost was never an issue then I could see taking a caddie when available as a special treat. But, alas, I am not wealthy... so there is little to "spread." I would much rather give $100 to Autism Research than compensate someone for carrying my golf clubs.
"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

Greg Stebbins

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #22 on: April 05, 2013, 02:33:41 PM »
Its been a while since I've posted but I feel very strongly about this one and I'm glad George wrote the article.

I'm all for caddies and I respect their work as I caddied through high school and college. However there are only a handful of caddies worth $70-$100 especially if the caddy is carrying 2 bags as is the norm.  Furthermore, what can a caddy really provide in advice if one is playing their home course? 

I think that these the mandatory caddy policies are a detriment to clubs as dues are cost prohibitive enough.  Who wants to pay the equivalent of a daily fee on top of dues every time they play?

Caddies are a luxury and I'd like to see clubs move away from mandatory policies.  Let's let the free market speak here and see what happens. 






Wayne_Kozun

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #23 on: April 05, 2013, 04:02:11 PM »
But how much of a problem is this?  Caddies are mandatory at a handful of exclusive private clubs in the US.  Here in Canada I have never seen a course that requires caddies, very few courses even have caddies.  As Peper said I have never heard of mandatory caddies in the UK and they don't even have caddies at high end courses in NZ like Kauri Cliffs or Cape Kidnappers and I am guessing that Aus is the same.

High end publics like Pebble and Pinehurst don't seem to require caddies, at least I have played Pebble without caddies.

The best value for caddy is SE Asia.  Giving $20 to a caddy at Nirwana in Bali makes you an extremely generous tipper and the young ladies really work hard for that money despite the fact that you are in a cart.

Brent Hutto

Re: Caddies: Modern-Day Elevator Operators?
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2013, 04:16:11 PM »
It's a problem to the small fraction of golfers who have an attachment to the idea and the institution of caddies.

In other words, not really so much a problem as a niche concern. However, to all appearances that small fraction of golfers are overrepresented about 100:1 on this forum as compared to the population of golfers at large.

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