[Chris_Hufnagel]

After thinking about 2 a lot on my drive home, I'd like another play at it.  I think the play may be to bounce the ball in from front left.  Easier said then done I know...but I think that is the way to play it, especially in the wind.

Josh, I have spent a lot of drives home (and long winters) trying to figure out how to best play #2.  For me, it is the shot I spend the most time contemplating and dreaming about...

On my first trip through when I was considering joining the Club, David Plassman told me many of the better players simply (always) aim for the back, right portion of the green and hope to two putt (if they make the surface) and move onto the next tee.  I have finally adopted that practice, but for me, even hitting to the fattest part of the green still presents a challenge.  Many times, when my tee shot misses, I am aiming my recovery at the fat part of the green and working hard for a four.

I will also admit that for some reason, that green gives me fits - especially putting from the back segment to a front pin - I swear a subtle spine bisects that green and pushes the ball one way or the other.  I need to take a closer look next time I get up there...

[Bill Seitz]

Rankings:

Par threes: 2, 16, 9, 5, 11.  Two has been my favorite hole on the course almost from first play.  16 gets better every time I play it.  Chris, I've actually played to the back middle of the green when the pin was up front, hit a perfect shot, and putted OFF the green into the swale on the right.  Even when you play it "correctly" (as if there's a correct way), it's hard.

Par fives: 7, 1, 17, 14.  This was actually really hard to do.  I put seven first because I think it has the most strategy involved.  Do you leave it on the shelf 110-120, or do you knock it down the hill?  I think my strategy varies depending on the wind.  I don't like that 110 yard shot into the wind, but no wind or down wind and I think that's the play.  The tee shot on one is really great, but I'm always trying to bang my second into the neck, no matter where I'm at.  14 and 17 are great fun, but the strategies never change for me, until it comes to using the side slopes and backstops on 14.  

Par fours: 8, 3, 13, 18, 15, 12, 6, 10, 4.  I think 18 is underrated.  The fairway looks so big, but if you hit it long enough, you really have to be precise to end up in the short grass instead of the rough on the left (though that's not a bad angle), and that approach is really fun.  This was a tough exercise though, and it really speaks to how much I love the course that I can't believe I ranked 4 last.  

[Jud_T]

Josh,

What is the mundane shot on 12?

Bill,

I think ranking the par 5's was the toughest.  I was toying with putting 7 higher. 

[Andrew Lewis]

Josh,

What is the mundane shot on 12?

Jud --

I would assume that Josh refers to the approach shot, but that's only because of his distance off the tee.

The beauty of this hole is the way it sets up to make holding the right side of the fairway for a preferred angle into the green more difficult, and for running approaches that can carom off the hills/slopes/etc to work a ball close.

But if you're bombing it 300+ yards over those fairway rolls and lobbing in a sand wedge to the hole, those things I find interesting might not even be noticeable.

Cheers, Andrew

[Andrew Lewis]

I'd also be interested to hear from more of the guys who either hadn't played the course before (or at least not frequently) before the thread becomes too bogged down by member-bias...

[Jud_T]

Josh needs to come back and play the tips....

[Howard Riefs]

Josh needs to come back and play the tips....

Well, he did join Broadmoor after last year's Mashie...

[Chris_Hufnagel]

Chris, I've actually played to the back middle of the green when the pin was up front, hit a perfect shot, and putted OFF the green into the swale on the right.  Even when you play it "correctly" (as if there's a correct way), it's hard.

Been there, done that.  Twice.

[BHoover]

I seem to be alone in ranking 10 as one of my favorite holes. I think it's that I loved the green...and I made a 30 footer for par on Sunday morning (one of my few highlights in a 7&5 drubbing by Josh Tarble).

Although 14 and 15 were nit my favorite holes, I think they are great back-to-back holes. The first is an easy par 5 where you walk away disappointed with a 5. But the next hole is a beast where you take a 5 and skip merrily to the next tee. My first time on 15, I didn't think it was fair to have a raised, narrow green that you effectively cannot play from the left side of that fairway. But, I think the play is to lay up either off the tee or on the second shot, and then try to scramble for par. I don't have a problem with it. There's nothing wrong with a par 4 that has an effective par of 5, particularly in match play.

[Ken Fry]

Certain holes can get in your head for whatever reason.

15 tee shot has always felt uncomfortable to me due to the demand of a solid right to left drive.   That's not exactly in my wheelhouse.

The holes that have surprised me after all these years are 3 and 4!  Maybe it's too much experience or maybe because I've never decided what the best location to aim a tee ball or what the best club is to hit on either hole.  My last few trips to Kingsley, I don't think I've hit an approach shot from anything but rough on both holes!  It's so easy to a drive in a bad spot.

Ken

[Josh Tarble]

Chris, that was the shot I was told to hit...fat part of the green long, but I didn't find that particularly easy, plus if you go long left you're really dead. I didn't think of playing short until Bill Seitz hit a shot fat, ended up in the fairway short and had an excellent up and down for three. I really think short is the preferred miss...regardless I want another crack at it, because it ate me for lunch every time around.

Jud, Andrew, it is the approach into 12.  I do like the hole, don't get me wrong. I really like the green and wouldn't change the hole at all.  But I think even from 180-190 it's not particularly interesting.  A great shot will always be great but because the slope to the right isn't too severe, the difference between an average shot and a not very good one isn't that much.

[Josh Tarble]

Also Jud I think I played the tips on all the holes, just not in one round. I have a few thoughts...

#1 the tee by the putting green is awesome! Great compliment to the others
#3 would love to play it from #5 white tee...current isn't too much different
#7 much worse from the tips...just bang driver down to the fairway, no decision at all
#10 doesn't change it much just lengthens
#14 would have liked to have play it WAY back. That decision to go right would be way more interesting
#15 into the wind it was a monster but still ends with me trying to get up and down from front of green
#16 so much better hole from way back...really a decision whether to try to fly it at the pin or use the slope
#17 would also like to play it way back without the wind. Really makes a strong drive crucial

[Chris_Hufnagel]

#7 much worse from the tips...just bang driver down to the fairway, no decision at all

I might recommend playing #7 next time as a par 4 and use the forward teeing ground - a very cool hole...

[BHoover]

#7 much worse from the tips...just bang driver down to the fairway, no decision at all

I might recommend playing #7 next time as a par 4 and use the forward teeing ground - a very cool hole...

Did this twice and you are right - very cool...unless you get greedy and block your tee shot out to the hill on the right. Then it becomes very not cool.

[Brian Finn]

Brian,
What's wrong with the approach to 15?  Who says you deserve to be on in reg?  Would you like it better if it said 5 on the card?  It's a par 4 1/2 just like 14! One of the best green complexes on the course IMO.  A real test of your imagination.

You're right, Jud. It really is an awesome green complex. I usually don't get hung up on par, but I suppose I was here.  I actually had more trouble positioning the ball off the tee on 15 than I did getting up near the green in two.  It is a great hole.  

[Brian Finn]

I will also admit that for some reason, that green gives me fits - especially putting from the back segment to a front pin - I swear a subtle spine bisects that green and pushes the ball one way or the other.  I need to take a closer look next time I get up there...

Two is just diabolical.  Reminded me of the "2 or 20" hole.

I managed to hit the green 3 out of 4 times, but twice struggled just to 3 putt. I found it one of the more challenging greens, perhaps because its' contours are subtler than the many bold greens on other holes.

[JC Jones]

Brian,
What's wrong with the approach to 15?  Who says you deserve to be on in reg?  Would you like it better if it said 5 on the card?  It's a par 4 1/2 just like 14! One of the best green complexes on the course IMO.  A real test of your imagination.

You're right, Jud. It really is an awesome green complex. I usually don't get hung up on par, but I suppose I was here.  I actually had more trouble positioning the ball off the tee on 15 than I did getting up near the green in two.  It is a great hole.  

Thanks to Hufnagel, I finally figured out the play on 15 and actually made par on Sunday.  The play is to take less club off the tee to ensure that if you push it right you aren't blocked out by the trees.  On Sunday I hit 3 metal, pushed it right but had enough room to take a 9 iron over the trees.  I did the same on Saturday but took 8 iron and carried it to the back bunker and isn't get up and down.

[Steve Lang]

  JC,  ya should have really layed back, played to in front of green , chipped up, and 1 putted

[Chris_Hufnagel]

#7 much worse from the tips...just bang driver down to the fairway, no decision at all

I might recommend playing #7 next time as a par 4 and use the forward teeing ground - a very cool hole...

Did this twice and you are right - very cool...unless you get greedy and block your tee shot out to the hill on the right. Then it becomes very not cool.

Don't get me started on blocks to the right...that is one if my (many) misses and certainly the most common.

I have done the Hundred Hole Hike at Kingsley for the last two years - I had three places that I did everything I could to not miss it "there."  

1. Right on #7
2. Right on #12
3. Right on #13

I do think there are a number of places at Kingsley where you just can't get "out of position" - none so serious in my mind as #7. If you get in the wrong place, it can be so disorientating to try and figure out how to get back into position...

[George Freeman]

I'm glad everyone had a great time.  Huge thanks goes out to the entire Kingsley staff for opening their doors, putting up with us, and making us all feel at home.  It really is the perfect place for the Mashie.  Also, many thanks to Howard Reifs, my co-captain, for doing a lot of work.

It was really great seeing everyone and putting some faces to names.  GCA.com continued its in-real-life mantra: "Almost jerk free"

Good luck picking your favorites at KC; I've never been able to.



Taking suggestions for next year's event! (As well as volunteers for the East Team captaincy.)

PS - look closely at the scoreboard to see how the respective captain's handled their player/captaincy duties  

[Matthew Sander]

Chris, that was the shot I was told to hit...fat part of the green long, but I didn't find that particularly easy, plus if you go long left you're really dead. I didn't think of playing short until Bill Seitz hit a shot fat, ended up in the fairway short and had an excellent up and down for three. I really think short is the preferred miss...regardless I want another crack at it, because it ate me for lunch every time around.

I noted that too when I was there Josh. The problem is the effective area short of the green may be smaller than the front portion of the green itself as everything wants to funnel down to the right. I guess the members are right  and the back half is the most generous target, but everything is relative.

A quick story about #2. During the long weekend I was there I played the hole par-birdie in my first two rounds, and I was proud to proclaim as much in the clubhouse at lunch. Our friend Andrew then says, "I'm playing with you this afternoon", while shooting me an all-knowing glance. For the next 4 rounds I went pocket-3-6-5.

[Jason Thurman]

Here's my shot at ranking the holes by par:

Par 3s:

2, 5, 16, 11, 9. Very hard to choose between the first three and the last three. Not a typo. I suspect 16 is sometimes my favorite and sometimes my least favorite.

Par 4s:

6, 3, 13, 18, 4, 12, 15,  8, 10

Par 5s:

1, 14, 17, 7

[Steve Kline]

Par 3s - 2, 16, 11, 5, 9 (have also played 4 tee to 6 green and 8 fairway to 9 green at about 190 yards)

Par 5s - 1, 7, 14, 17

Par 4s - 13, 3, 15, 4, 8, 6, 18, 12, 10

[Ryan Taylor]

In my opinion, par 5's are the weak link. Par 3's are spectacular. My second favorite front nine behind RCD. (However, I'm playing C-Downs on Friday so this may change)

Par 3 - 16, 2, 9, 5, 11

Par 5 - 1, 7, 14, 17

Par 4 - 8, 13, 3, 4, 6, 15, 10, 18, 12

Overall - 16, 2, 8, 9, 13, 3, 4, 5, 11, 6, 1, 15, 10, 7, 18, 12, 14 and 17

Ryan

[Tim Bert]

Par 3s - 16, 5, 2, 11, 9 (6 green from 4 tee and 7 green from 6 gold tee and 11 green from 18 tee and 8 green from 9 south white tee are also all excellent)

Par 5s - 7, 14, 1, 17

I refuse to even try and rank the par 4s. 3,4,6,8,10,12,13,15, and 18 would be amongst my favorite if I did.

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