[Ryan Taylor]

Thanks George for organizing the event and congrats to the West.

Kingsley was in fantastic shape and we really lucked out weather wise. (Detroit Metro was saturated on Sun) I regret that I missed out on the 13th hole debate (front bunker) which took place at the Rivercamp on Sat night. How do you birdie that hole anyway??

Wish I could have met more of you and hope to play in future events.

Ryan

[JC Jones]

A birdie on 13 might have been my only achievement of the weekend.  3 metal pin high to the left of the green.  Hybrid along the ground (my equivalent of Doak's 4 iron) to 8 inches.  Tap in.  I'll be forgetting about most of the rest of the holes I played.   

[Andrew Lewis]

Andrew:

We enjoyed playing with you on Saturday.  George, not so much, after that ridiculous bomb on the 18th to beat us.    At least he saved me from having to make my 5-footer for a half.

I have played so much links golf in the past year that I have the yips with a wedge trying to hit anything in the air, so as they say in tennis, I am "playing around my backhand" right now.  On several of those shots you saw I was actually chipping with a 4-iron, using a putting stroke [the Phil Rodgers method] ... but I started getting them closer, as on 16, once I got comfortable that I could just putt.  Kudos to Dan Lucas for having those approaches fast enough to putt on.

Maybe you guys should start working on the Chicago crowd to actually come up with a venue IN Chicago ... Beverly would be cool.  Medinah #1 will probably be a tough ticket next summer, or I'd suggest that.  Chicago Golf has rules against such things.

Tom,

It was most enjoyable, with more holes won than lost.  And your 4-iron / putter combo was a dagger.  But let's not forget that George's performance, or lack thereof, on 17 was what set up his heroic antic on 18 green!  Perhaps we can look for a rematch during my next TC trip...

If people are serious about Chicago for next year, I can speak to my pro/GM at Beverly about hosting at least one of the rounds.  The Western Am returns to the Bev in August, so 2014 would be a good time to see the course.

Cheers, Andrew

[Howard Riefs]

A birdie on 13 might have been my only achievement of the weekend.  3 metal pin high to the left of the green.  Hybrid along the ground (my equivalent of Doak's 4 iron) to 8 inches.  Tap in.  I'll be forgetting about most of the rest of the holes I played.   

Definitely a great drive and a magical hybrid bunt that had a good chance of going in.  Much better than my photo.

[Josh Tarble]

Here are some photos that I liked from the trip, not all are from Kingsley but figured this was as good as place as any.

I'm guessing there aren't too many parking lots with better views than this one:


The famous 7th green at Crystal


The 10th tee at Crystal, you could do a lot worse than this view


The 5th tee at Arcadia Bluffs, this course catches a lot of grief, but we had a great time


12th green at Arcadia...our weather was decent


The 17th at Arcadia


Looking back down #1 at Kingsley...just an incredible starting hole


The 3rd at Kingsley...a boomerang green that continues well out of the frame on right


One of the easier pin positions at #11


Mr. Riefs and Mr. Tigerman finishing up on #12


The brutal 15th in the evening light

[Matthew Sander]

To Josh and the other Kingsley first-timers, any favorite holes?

While I wasn't able to make The Mashie, I did make my first Kingsley visit earlier in the month. For the par 4s I'll go with 3, 6, 12, and 13 (in no particular order). I could make an argument for several others as well.

Of the par 3s, I like 16 the most. I certainly understand the opinion of those that prefer #2 and its innocuous visual (for the first timer) that belies the challenge found on and around the green. I just love the setting and look of 16 and the variety of shots that can be played there.

#1 is such a striking and bold opening hole and probably my favorite par 5, with 14 a close second (after that statement, Andrew Lewis must have just fallen out of his chair).

There are really no weak holes, and when I review what I've just typed I notice the absence of holes like 4, 8, 15, 17, etc. Maybe I'll take the stance of another GCAer that has quite a few rounds in up there, my favorite hole is all of 'em.

[Michael Whitaker]

There is not one indifferent hole at Kingsley. All 18 have something unique to offer.

[Bill Seitz]

Can't add much to what has already been said.  I've been a member at Kingsley for two seasons now, and the course was in the best shape I've ever seen it, though it should be noted that it's nearly always in excellent shape.  It was the fastest I've ever seen it, and really perfect for the weather conditions that we had (and we were really blessed with great weather).

As good as the course is, the reason I joined Kingsley was because of the membership and the staff, and as usual, everything was first class, from the Saturday dinner to the club-provided scoreboards.  They were a nice touch, and a first for the Mashie.  Justin, David, Brian, Josh, Brad, and Lydon always seem willing to go the extra mile.  And thank you as well to Mr. Walker for helping to provide such an excellent experience.

And of course, the company at the Mashie is always well worth the trip.   It's a lot of fun to have newbies up and watch them experience Kingsley's highs and lows for the first time.   The people are why it's the event I most look forward to every year.  Thanks to everyone for coming up and experiencing what some of us are lucky to experience on a regular basis in the summer.  I tend to agree with JC that part of the fun of the Mashie is having most of the participants stay on or near the host course.  It was great fun to sit out on the back deck and visit with everyone, although after two dinners in two weeks, Mr. Doak is probably getting tired of sitting next to me.

Already looking forward to next year

[BHoover]

To Josh and the other Kingsley first-timers, any favorite holes?

This was my first time at Kingsley, and I absolutely LOVED it.  But, I'm not quite sure which hole would be my favorite.  Of the par 3s, my favorite would be #16 (the ability to use the slope to the right of the green is a fantastic feature, and I birdied it on my first go-round).  Of the par 4s, I think that #13 might be my favorite, but I'll say that #10 might be a darkhorse (I loved the green).  Of the par 5s, I think I'd go with #1.

The only hole that I did not like was #7, but my reason for not liking it is because the tee shot made me uncomfortable.  I'm not saying that it's a bad hole; in fact, I think it's great except for the tee shot.  I just wasn't comfortable with hitting a hybrid or long iron off the tee (and I spent a lot of time on the hill to the right).

[BHoover]

There is not one indifferent hole at Kingsley. All 18 have something unique to offer.

+1

I can't think of a better place to host this event.  From the fantastic course to the friendly staff and the ability to stay on-site, Kingsley is a terrific place to host this event.  

I'd love to play in future Mashies, and I'm sure that I will.  But next year might be a tough one with my wife and I expecting a baby in February.  I don't think she's going to be too accepting of my taking golf trips next year.

[Jud_T]

 I regret that I missed out on the 13th hole debate (front bunker) which took place at the Rivercamp on Sat night. How do you birdie that hole anyway??

You birdie it by laying up to give yourself a full wedge that you can spin, but none of you chuckleheads can resist letting it rip off the tee!  

[Buck Wolter]

A birdie on 13 might have been my only achievement of the weekend.  3 metal pin high to the left of the green.  Hybrid along the ground (my equivalent of Doak's 4 iron) to 8 inches.  Tap in.  I'll be forgetting about most of the rest of the holes I played.  

I seem to remember a huge drive and long iron to 12 feet on 14 -- you just missed the eagle and had a gimme birdie.

[Dan Kelly]

Can't add much to what has already been said.  I've been a member at Kingsley for two seasons now, and the course was in the best shape I've ever seen it, though it should be noted that it's nearly always in excellent shape.  It was the fastest I've ever seen it, and really perfect for the weather conditions that we had (and we were really blessed with great weather).

As good as the course is, the reason I joined Kingsley was because of the membership and the staff, and as usual, everything was first class, from the Saturday dinner to the club-provided scoreboards.  They were a nice touch, and a first for the Mashie.  Justin, David, Brian, Josh, Brad, and Lydon always seem willing to go the extra mile.  And thank you as well to Mr. Walker for helping to provide such an excellent experience.

And of course, the company at the Mashie is always well worth the trip.   It's a lot of fun to have newbies up and watch them experience Kingsley's highs and lows for the first time.   The people are why it's the event I most look forward to every year.  Thanks to everyone for coming up and experiencing what some of us are lucky to experience on a regular basis in the summer.  I tend to agree with JC that part of the fun of the Mashie is having most of the participants stay on or near the host course.  It was great fun to sit out on the back deck and visit with everyone, although after two dinners in two weeks, Mr. Doak is probably getting tired of sitting next to me.

Already looking forward to next year

You're making all of us who couldn't make it this year feel really bad!

Onward and upward in the Midwest!

[Josh Tarble]

To Josh and the other Kingsley first-timers, any favorite holes?

I will also agree that every hole is very strong.  The green complexes are so varied and all excellent.  That lends itself to a ton of really good holes.

My two least favorite were #7 and #17.  I think as individual holes they are very one-dimensional off of the tee.  However, as a pair they work very well.  #7 favors the short hitter while #17 favors the big hitter.  If one was without the other they wouldn't work nearly as well.

As for favorite I'd probably lean towards #3 or #14.  They are so good off of the tee and the green complexes are perfect compliments to the tee shot.

The brilliance of the course is how varied every single hole is, but how perfectly they fit together.  Each difficult hole and really each shot is complimented by one that is attack-able.  The ebb and flow of the course is fantastic and one that makes it a joy to play every time.

[Josh Tarble]

 I regret that I missed out on the 13th hole debate (front bunker) which took place at the Rivercamp on Sat night. How do you birdie that hole anyway??

You birdie it by laying up to give yourself a full wedge that you can spin, but none of you chuckleheads can resist letting it rip off the tee!  

I still think the play is rip a fade down the left side.  If it cuts just right you may be on the green....greenside bunker is not a bad leave....and I birdied it on Sunday from the back left swale so it can't be that bad of a spot. 

Unless you are Stricker like with your wedges, then the play is leave a full wedge in.

[Jason Thurman]

I think I called 7 an Art Hills "3-shot par 5" template hole at one point, right down to the trees impeding balls in the fairway. I don't love it. 10 also isn't my favorite. It just didn't seem like it fit and the green felt more severe for the sake of severity than some of the others. Still, criticism of Kingsley feels nitpicky. It's a fantastic course and easily in my personal top 10.

As for 13, I think we're being too simplistic in trying to find "the play" off the tee. What makes it such a great hole is that the play changes based on wind and pin position. If the pin is where it was Friday, I'd like to play just short of the green on the right side. It's too small a target to hit with a full or 3/4 wedge consistently, at least for my game. If the pin is in one of the bowls, you need to lay up and leave a full wedge to be able to keep it on the green. If the pin is where it was Sunday, driver up the left is the play. Pin high is perfect as long as you don't chunk your chip like a total dumbass (guilty). Saturday's pin is pretty accessible from 60 yards. There are so many different pin positions, and the size of the pinned area is what determines whether it's prudent to play a full wedge or if you need to be a bit closer with an open angle to be able to run one to the right tier.

[BHoover]

What I'd like to know is how you approach #8, which was generally a disaster for me all four rounds I played, and how you play #13 when the pin is all the way back?

I tried playing #8 by hitting driver both right and left (no good each time), by playing three-wood to the right and leaving a short pitch (no good) and by laying up and leaving a full shot in to the green (also no good as I got greedy and tried to hit a wedge to that (sucker) front pin and ended up in the deep front bunker.  I just don't know how you play that hole, unless you admit that, despite being a short par 4, you just play safe and take your par and then run to #9 tee.

[Zack Molnar]

As much has already been said about this incredible weekend, there is not much more I can add. However, the accolades given to the course and staff can not be overdone, so I want to extend my gratitude to our incredible hosts for the weekend. The course had the best turf I have ever seen, and the service was top notch.

GCA get-togethers never disappoint, and this was no exception. Loved meeting new GCAers and seeing old ones as well. Thanks to the great people I played with this weekend, Chris Stuges, Howard Reifs, Pete Pittock, Ken Fry, and Matt Schmidt.  

Finally, the biggest thanks goes out to George Freeman, Howard Reifs and everyone else involved in putting this flawless event together. The weekend could not have been better, and they even managed to make the weather as good as I have seem for the end of September.

I look forward to seeing everyone again! If any of you midwesterners need a break from the winter cold, feel free to come down to Texas for a little thaw!

[Howard Riefs]

What I'd like to know is how you approach #8, which was generally a disaster for me all four rounds I played, and how you play #13 when the pin is all the way back?

I tried playing #8 by hitting driver both right and left (no good each time), by playing three-wood to the right and leaving a short pitch (no good) and by laying up and leaving a full shot in to the green (also no good as I got greedy and tried to hit a wedge to that (sucker) front pin and ended up in the deep front bunker.  I just don't know how you play that hole, unless you admit that, despite being a short par 4, you just play safe and take your par and then run to #9 tee.

Yes, I just play it safe and HOPE for a low number. #8 is the scariest green on the course. Lots of "pucker," some would say, when it comes to that approach shot. As a higher handicap (13.7 index), I just hope I don't have a blow-up score. Depending on the wind, I typically play it with a 3 hybrid or 3 wood over the left-most bunker on the hill. That leaves a shot of between 115 to 85 yards. Don't go for any front pin but rather aim for the center; there just isn't much room for error ... unless you really want to play your third shot from off the green.

My "best" shot on Sunday was my approach on #8. From 113 yards with a two-club wind, hit an 8 iron to 12 feet, pin-high. Two feet short of that and it would have run back down the front of the green. Scary.

 

[Brian Finn]

I agree with sentiments like Jason's - every course has some flaws, but criticism of Kingsley really is finding small things you don't quite love or might like to see done a bit differently.  The tee shot on 7 and approach on 15 were the only 2 spots on the entire course where I questioned anything.  Everything else was simply brilliant.  So, instead of listing everything I loved about the place (it would be a really long post), I decided to rank the holes in groupings by par.  I know many don't like to rank everything, but I found it a fun way to reflect on the 4 incredible rounds I played this past weekend.  I'd be curious to see others' (especially members) comparable lists.

Par 3s:  16, 5, 9, 2, 11
An incredibly strong group, especially considering there are 5 of them.  16 the standout, 5 is awesome from every tee, the other 3 are each excellent as well.

Note - the best par 3 on the course is actually 6 tee to 7 green - roughly 230 downhill...thanks to Matt Schmidt for playing this and a few other cross-country holes with us.  also, 9 from the new "chairman's" tee is awesome (as long as it doesn't count on your scorecard)

Par 5s:  14, 1, 17, 7
I really loved 14, found 1 brutal but fair, 17 incredibly exciting, and 7 excellent from 200yds in.

Par 4s:  13, 3, 18, 4, 6, 10, 8, 12, 15
Incredibly difficult exercise. I ultimately ranked based on which holes I wanted to re-play immediately after tapping in...I could re-play 13 100 times and not get bored, especially with different pin positions, winds, etc.  3 was brilliant but brutal, 18 approach and green perhaps my second favorite spot on the course (behind 2 tee)...a course without a single weak par 4 is unbelievable.

[Jud_T]

Brian,

What's wrong with the approach to 15?  Who says you deserve to be on in reg?  Would you like it better if it said 5 on the card?  It's a par 4 1/2 just like 14! One of the best green complexes on the course IMO.  A real test of your imagination.

My ranking:

Par 3's:

2, 9, 16, 11, 5

Par 5's:

14, 1, 7, 17

Par 4's:

13, 3, 8, 15, 6, 12, 18, 4, 10

[Chris_Hufnagel]

I hate to admit, but I have never actually done this exercise before for Kingsley - here it goes...


Par 3's – 2, 16, 9, 5, 11

Par 5's – 14, 1, 7, 17

Par 4's – 13, 3, 6, 8, 18, 12, 4, 15, 10

Man, that was hard.  I think ranking the 4's was the hardest...

[Howard Riefs]

I'm surprised I haven't done this exercise either. Of course, I'll likely change the order of the par 4s before end of day:

Par 3s
2, 16, 9, 5, 11

Par 5s
14, 1, 7, 17

Par 4s
13, 3, 15, 8, 18, 6, 12, 4, 10

Favorite 3 hole stretch:  13, 14, 15

[Josh Tarble]

Good way to lay it out, especially for Kingsley as I think every person may have a different order.  

Par 3s
16, 11, 9, 2, 5

I really like 16 and 11 because they both have multiple ways to play them and get it close.  2 and 5 are kind of opposite....a lot of shots are going to end up in similar positions...just happens that 2 ends up bad and 5 ends up good.

After thinking about 2 a lot on my drive home, I'd like another play at it.  I think the play may be to bounce the ball in from front left.  Easier said then done I know...but I think that is the way to play it, especially in the wind.

Par 4s
3, 15, 13...6, 4, 18...8, 10, 12

Kingsley has some unreal par 4s.  My first 3 are all really close.  Really good and diverse.  Second set of 3 are still good, but aren't quite like the top ones.  Bottom 3 are still very good but have at least 1 mundane shot.

Par 5s
14, 1, 17, 7

[Bill Seitz]

What I'd like to know is how you approach #8, which was generally a disaster for me all four rounds I played

I like going down the left side, without taking enough club to reach the bunker.  It leaves anywhere from 100-130 yards in, and you're approaching the green from a better angle, as the green generally slopes back right to front left.  Then add ten yards to whatever your number is (adjust for the wind) to take into account the uphill, and then probably add 5 yards to that, since the miss is long.  You can't really miss it right, and the bunker, while not good, isn't the worst place to be (see the part about missing right).  I've played it plenty of times from the right side as well, but the key I think is to get comfortable that it's going to take more club than you think it is.  

One of the themes I've found at Kingsley, and to some extent at Greywalls as well (though I need more plays up there) is that Mike DeVries will require you at times to play very, very precise shots to get a good result, with severe consequences if you don't pull it off correctly, or miss to the correct spot.  However, when you're asked to do so, you almost always have a wedge or short iron in hand (2, 7, 8, 9, 13)

and how you play #13 when the pin is all the way back?

You don't. Which is to say, I don't think that's a regular rotation spot for the pin.  I've only ever seen it there when we've specifically requested it (or at least Andrew Lewis has), and on those occasions, Dan put a second pin on the green for the weekend.  The normal pin and the brutal pin.  However, I think the play there is to bang it as far as you can up the left side, and pitch it over that bunker and maybe say a little prayer.  If you're lucky, the ball will hold up on the collar (if it doesn't stay on the green) and you can two putt it from there.  The first time I played to that pin I made bogey by going from the front bunker, to the left bunker, to the back right bunker, from where I got up and down somehow.

On another note with regard to 14 and 15, out of context I don't think either are great holes for their par.  My raw scoring average on 14 is about the same as my raw scoring average on 15 this year.  (5.07 on 14 vs. 4.73 on 15 going into this weekend, thanks to an incredibly lucky run of four pars out of five on my last trip on 15).  But I don't think you can isolate those holes individually, which is the great thing about having them back to back.  They collectively make a par nine.  Get through those two holes in nine shots, no matter how you've done it, and you're ahead of the game.  It helps that they're surround by two holes, 13 and 16, which aren't very difficult pars. 16 has played as the fourth easiest hole on the course for me this year in relation to par, and 13 would be up there if I wasn't an idiot.  It's a great stretch of holes where the collective par seems just about right, even if the individual pars may not feel like it.

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