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Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
One of the arguments made on this board and elsewhere after the hidden-from-public decision to modify the public course St Andrews Old is that change is a constant on the course.

Using aerial overlays, here is a comparison of the pre-2012 2nd to an aerial I found from 1932:
http://golfcoursehistories.com/TOC.html

I had not seen this aerial before. Has anyone else?

The only real change I notice is maintenance, specifically narrowing the fairway. (If someone wants to use the "constant change" comment to describe the New, the aerial comparison shows he's got a strong argument.) The addition of the OB tee for Open / Dunhill floggers is irrelevant because it has no impact on the play for golfers like you and me.

Small wonder some questioned the utility of those bunkers Dawson & Co just killed: they were marooned in the rough! What do people think of widening that right-hand fairway line? Personally, I think would have made a lot of sense had they kept the bunkers.

As an aside, the loss of width is the change I see most often in my studies of old aerials. People talk about added length but the loss of width, everywhere from TOC to Pine Valley, is striking. When you consider that old courses have been lengthened and narrowed, small wonder rounds are longer and fewer people are taking up the game.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Mac Plumart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you see "constant change" at TOC's 2nd? A "new" aerial from 1932
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2013, 03:07:06 PM »
I think you are correct, Mark.  I don't see a ton of change, except the narrowing of the fairway.

Question...

it seems a lot of restoration work is focused on restoring greens to their original size and shape after they've shrunk and become more oval shaped throughout the years.  Is the same type of thing happening to fairways?  Narrowing and loosing their original shape and structure?
Sportsman/Adventure loving golfer.

Mark Bourgeois

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you see "constant change" at TOC's 2nd? A "new" aerial from 1932
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2013, 03:35:56 PM »
Mac,

Unlike your greens example,  which is the product of neglect, my guess is fairway narrowing is a conscious choice.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you see "constant change" at TOC's 2nd? A "new" aerial from 1932
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2013, 04:50:04 PM »
Nice work Mark.   

I'm guessing that apart from the fairway narrowing, this hole shows less change than any other hole on the (your?) website.


That of course is your point?


Interesting to see the lost holes from the Eden, anyone tell me which way they played?  And there’s Cross bunker that's gone from the 2nd on the new.  It would be great if this whole process led to a sympathetic restoration of the New and a redesign of a couple of holes on the Eden. It would be a blessing in disguise if it all led to more attention being paid to GCA at the home of golf. It would also be hugely influential throughout GB&I.  I dream but at least I don’t see any airborne porcines in the pictures.
Let's make GCA grate again!

Thomas Dai

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you see "constant change" at TOC's 2nd? A "new" aerial from 1932
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2013, 05:49:47 PM »
Very interesting overhead photos. Well done for unearthing and displaying them in this comparative way.

Fascinating to see that the fairways were wider in older days. I'm curious to know how they would have cut the fairways back in 1932, especially as they cut what appears to be a significantly larger area. Any thoughts?

All the best

Ed Brzezowski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you see "constant change" at TOC's 2nd? A "new" aerial from 1932
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2013, 06:05:14 PM »
At rules school with a very nice R and A lady. She says the changes worked out nicely. She promised to send me some pics. She says " everyone will love 11".
We have a pool and a pond, the pond would be good for you.

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you see "constant change" at TOC's 2nd? A "new" aerial from 1932
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2013, 10:15:00 PM »
Mark -

There have been remarkably few changes to TOC since 1905 or so. That is especially true of changes in and around greens. Until late in 2012, that is. Dawson's addition of the greenside bunkers on the 2nd are the first new greenside bunkers since Fowler and Low installed a single new bunker behind the 5th in 1905.

By my math, that's more than a century. To put it more graphically, no grandparent of any senior citizen alive today would have known greenside bunker configurations on TOC that differed from those we know today. And the great-grandparents of the oldest living seniors would have known the course with only one fewer greenside bunker. Until the fall of 2012, that is.   

Don't get me started on the shoddy rationale for the changes, the lack of transparency in making them, the cavalier attitude about the history of TOC, the shameful finger pointing ex post of those responsible and the frightening precedential implications for future changes.

Bob     

 

Neil_Crafter

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Do you see "constant change" at TOC's 2nd? A "new" aerial from 1932
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2013, 06:20:57 AM »
Well said Bob
+1

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