Green size - can the target be too small?

[Andrew Brown]

When I was a lad at Uni the local course had a par 3 that was between 105 and 120 metres (115-130ish yards), depending on the markers. The tear-drop green was tiny - about 16 metres deep and at most about 9 wide, with a narrow tongue in front. A small round bunker right, and a green-length bunker left. A swale before the green, and steep drop off behind and to the right. A good short hole....

Then the club built a new tee from a different angle, but lengthened it to 150 metres from the back tee, with the resultant increase in 2 clubs hit to the green. With a tiny green to begin with, it became a terror, demanding pin-point accuracy.

I've always felt the club made a wrong decision to lengthen the hole.

Can a green be too small regarding the clubs being hit into it? Are there any examples on well-known or regarded courses?

Andrew
PS...it is the site of my only "ace" - renovating the old tees before changing the hole, it was about 80 metres, also in a period of drought. Declaring I could throw the ball onto the green, I heaved it long and high, and with help from a few big bounces it reached the green and rolled into the hole.

[Adam Clayman]

Can a green be too small regarding the clubs being hit into it? Are there any examples on well-known or regarded courses?

I remember when this question conjured up a kind of formulaic mindset. So, It's my belief the answer is Yes, but only when there's absolutely no other way to acheive the objective.

Sebonack comes to mind as an example of what I mean. Small greens, but imo, the size is immaterial because the green surrounds make the green play bigger than it's actual square footage. (save for maybe the penultimate hole)

[Doug Siebert]

PS...it is the site of my only "ace" - renovating the old tees before changing the hole, it was about 80 metres, also in a period of drought. Declaring I could throw the ball onto the green, I heaved it long and high, and with help from a few big bounces it reached the green and rolled into the hole.

Now that's something worth bragging about!  Compared to the number of regular aces made, or even the number of aces made on par 4s what you have done is pretty unique.  There can't be more than a handful of times that has ever happened on a regulation course.

I used to be able to throw a ball a really long way, but never found golf balls to be good for much distance compared to a baseball.  80 meters is about the distance on a typical baseball field from the warning track to second base.  It's no mean feat to throw a baseball from the warning track to the cutoff at second on one hop, something I'd estimate is probably comparable to getting a golf ball there on a full runout.

I think about a local hole that's around 105 yards and have a hard time imagining I could have ever thrown a golf ball all the way to the front edge of that green.  It makes the scar tissue in my right shoulder from the torn rotator cuff hurt just thinking about it

[archie_struthers]

 

Yes , from an architectural and agronomical standpoint .  A long par three needs a green big enough to accept the iron or wood needed to reach it. No sense designing a small green on a hole that most players hit furniture!

Agronomically,  depending on how much play a green gets and the weather in the  area,  a small green might not take the beating of repeated ball marks and foot traffic. All the supers on board know of what I speak.  So , size does matter!

[Andrew Brown]

PS...it is the site of my only "ace" - renovating the old tees before changing the hole, it was about 80 metres, also in a period of drought. Declaring I could throw the ball onto the green, I heaved it long and high, and with help from a few big bounces it reached the green and rolled into the hole.

Now that's something worth bragging about!  Compared to the number of regular aces made, or even the number of aces made on par 4s what you have done is pretty unique.  There can't be more than a handful of times that has ever happened on a regulation course.

I used to be able to throw a ball a really long way, but never found golf balls to be good for much distance compared to a baseball.  80 meters is about the distance on a typical baseball field from the warning track to second base.  It's no mean feat to throw a baseball from the warning track to the cutoff at second on one hop, something I'd estimate is probably comparable to getting a golf ball there on a full runout.

I think about a local hole that's around 105 yards and have a hard time imagining I could have ever thrown a golf ball all the way to the front edge of that green.  It makes the scar tissue in my right shoulder from the torn rotator cuff hurt just thinking about it

Doug,

It was during a very dry spell. Between the tee and green it was rock hard, but I did give it my all when I threw it...I also remember in a competition game cut-chipping a 2 iron that landed short, ran up and hit the pin, finishing a couple of feet away...so it was a fun hole before they moved it back.

Archie,

Thanks for the reminder about agronomic reasons....obviously IMO I think there would be less ball marks to repair on this green compared to when it was a shorter hole.

FWIW, the course has an unpolished gem of a par 3 on the back 9 which might be the toughest (to make par on)shortish par 3 I've played.

Regards
Andrew

[Paul Gray]

Yes........A long par three needs a green big enough to accept the iron or wood needed to reach it. No sense designing a small green on a hole that most players hit furniture!

But surely this would only apply to a course where the greens were supposed to hold a ball. It need not be considered on the firm and fast course where the intent is to run the ball to the hole.

Running approach + 210 yards + small green = tricky but fair challenge for all golfers.   

[Jaeger Kovich]

Harbor Town and TPC Sawgrass should be your case studies here... YES they can be too small!