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John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #75 on: June 24, 2013, 11:40:47 PM »
More commentary, if you please.

I like to 10th hole quite a bit, and thought it played OK from 440 yards.  For me it is much better from 370 yards, where I'd typically play it fairway wood - 7-8 iron.  The important thing is to power your iron past the right greenside bunker to the small green, perhaps the flattest green on the course.  This second shot definitely favors a draw (R-L) shot.

From the back tees, I pulled it into the left rough, and snaked a 7-wood from 192 through the 8-10 yard wide slot to fifteen feet.  One of my best shots.

I just counted.  I played 9 shots with the 7-wood, the incumbent club in the bag at 12-14 years.  Trusted friend for long distance golf.

As Garland noted during the round, the 14th hole plays beautifully at the right distance.  The 14th hole is 470-530 yards, with a severely downhill shot, to a fairway that broadens out to 80-90 yards in the primary landing zone, with a prominent centerline bunker.  The right side is higher ground, and the preferred power kick down to the lower left fairway, from which the player has a medium to long approach with trouble left, and a similar right-to-left cant of the fairway sloping in.  Back left pins are easy.  The front right pin is inaccessible.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #76 on: June 24, 2013, 11:55:16 PM »
...
3rd, par 3, 208 yards - I hit a 4 iron off the tee (poorly to short right) since we had a bit of headwind. I am guessing most pros will hit 6 iron and up. This will be a great hole with a tailwind as the only way to stop the ball on the green would be to land it short and run it up, but if it is not precise, it will be rejected back to the front bunker. A front right pin will be almost impossible to get close.
...

The shot of the day was Ben's 4 iron (I think) to inside 5 feet (don't remember exactly) on this hole. I managed to get five wood on the green and feel impotent about it after Ben's shot.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #77 on: June 24, 2013, 11:59:42 PM »
The winner of KP put it within 2 feet!!! Dang...

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #78 on: June 25, 2013, 12:02:57 AM »
What did the KP at 15 end up at?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #79 on: June 25, 2013, 12:05:21 AM »
Yes, Ben hit the prescribed shot, a fade into that right pin.  Great shot.  I have been informed that he did not win the closest to the hole competition, as someone stuck it to 2 feet.  That's a Redanesque hole where the fade is important, if you're hitting anything more than a 6-iron.

A favorite moment came on #12, playing 246 yards, so us mortals could take a crack at it.  From there I had made birdie and par before.  Tugged driver and played shitty chip that rolled down ten yards short of the green.  Pin was in the eagle position, a severe front right bowl.  Garland tends the flag from directly behind the hole, not knowing I intend to play it off the back slope.  Rolled it up there fifteen feet long, playing the parabola effect.  Garland is still standing there like a stone as it trickles down to the hole.  About six feet from the hole, I cry, "Garland, for God's sake, move!", at which he smiles and moves away, the ball rolling two feet below for easy par.  You've got to make the most of it.

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #80 on: June 25, 2013, 12:05:27 AM »
2 feet 9". I am still shocked that Brent didn't win the KP at 9th with 7 feet.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2013, 12:07:03 AM by Richard Choi »

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #81 on: June 25, 2013, 12:07:17 AM »
2 feet 9"

I guess it's my turn to say "Dang!"
;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #82 on: June 25, 2013, 12:09:08 AM »
2 feet 9". I am still shocked that Brent didn't win the KP at 9th with 7 feet.

there were a lot of groups out there not playing the open tees. do you suppose?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #83 on: June 25, 2013, 12:10:11 AM »
Well, we aren't very good, and we did start at 6:22, and early records are made to be broken. 

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #84 on: June 25, 2013, 12:10:50 AM »
There were only 4 or 5 groups in the morning. Most groups teed off afternoon.

Brent Carlson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #85 on: June 25, 2013, 12:10:56 AM »
2 feet 9". I am still shocked that Brent didn't win the KP at 9th with 7 feet.

Not only that but someone stuck it to four feet on 9.   ::)

Although it was not a photogenic day, Rich did take some pics from the back tees.  Post em!

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #86 on: June 25, 2013, 12:11:08 AM »
Well, we aren't very good, and we did start at 6:22, and early records are made to be broken. 

Story of my life. ;)
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #87 on: June 25, 2013, 12:19:47 AM »
It has been confirmed that the KP's were tainted by non-US Open competitors.  Oh well.

I wish there would have been a KP'S on #5.   ;D

All-in-all, I feel like the analysis thus far is spot on.  I made a lot of consolations for the golf course to Michael and others during the day.  I don't know why I feel the need to defend CB--maybe it's that I bought a house partly because its nearby.  In the end, the golf course is certainly a brute.  And I could make a good argument that my frequency of play there is higher than anyone at the moment.  Which is what--I think--qualifies me to make my next statement...

I am becoming of the mindset that it isn't fair to compare Chambers Bay to Bandon, Wine Valley, Tetherow or Sagebrush.  I think these are shallow regional comparisons based on turf-type or "style.".  Chambers deserves to be compared to places like Bethpage Black, Torrey Pines, and Kiawah Ocean Course.  From nearly it's inception, the golf course was being designed and groomed with a major championship in mind.  And it also isn't even remotely natural.  It honestly even isn't that aesthetically pleasing unless you're looking at the Puget and the Olympics beyond.  No, Chambers is a brute.  It's designed to be harsh.  And like BB, Torrey, or even another famously ugly beast, Oakmont, it's only fun when you're okay with masochism and relish the challenge of surviving.  

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #88 on: June 25, 2013, 12:24:27 AM »
Forgot about the pics!

3rd hole


6th hole (the bags are where the normal back tees would be)


9th hole


10th hole


11th hole


14th hole


10th hole

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #89 on: June 25, 2013, 12:28:32 AM »
I disagree strongly that Chambers is nothing but a brute. I have played the course with a woman who was playing her 3rd round ever. She got around without losing a ball and had the best time ever playing golf. That CERTAINLY cannot be said for BPB, Torrey, or Kiawah.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #90 on: June 25, 2013, 12:29:39 AM »
Personally, I don't find Chambers Bay to be designed to be harsh. To say Chambers Bay is designed to be harsh seems to ignore holes like 4, 7, 14, 17, and 18 at Pacific Dunes that I find to be as "harsh" as anything at Chambers Bay.

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #91 on: June 25, 2013, 12:34:03 AM »
It's not designed to be harsh, but when you miss one into tarnation, you've got to walk all the way down and find it.  There's no happy red stake saying you can just play from here.

I'm going emoticon.

 8)

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #92 on: June 25, 2013, 12:36:14 AM »
It's not designed to be harsh, but when you miss one into tarnation, you've got to walk all the way down and find it.  There's no happy red stake saying you can just play from here.

I'm going emoticon.

 8)


Barney prefers red stakes. ;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #93 on: June 25, 2013, 12:42:39 AM »
You guys had a couple scores in the mid-80s.  With due respect, I'm pretty sure none of you has U.S. Open type games. 

Doesn't this suggest the pro's are going to score pretty low there, even with faster greens? 

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #94 on: June 25, 2013, 12:45:02 AM »
Rich, et al,

I can't think of a course that I've played that penalizes marginal shots the way CB does.  It compounds errors much more than you all are giving credit.  It combines the fun of fescue golf with the impossibility of execution that other famous brutes possess..  It's very unique in that respect.  

Brent Carlson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #95 on: June 25, 2013, 12:45:57 AM »
Jim,

In my opinion the USGA can pick the winning score.  I don't believe they need to grow the rough high.  It's all about the firmness of the green complexes.  If I had to pick a winning score I'd say even par at this point.  It's a shot in the dark.

Now I shot 85 and with my best game could probably shoot 76 / 77 from these tees.  Keep in mind it's my home course so I know how to get around - something the pros will have to learn.  I'll see if I can play it again later in the year from all the way back.  

Ben Sims

  • Karma: +1/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #96 on: June 25, 2013, 12:46:51 AM »
You guys had a couple scores in the mid-80s.  With due respect, I'm pretty sure none of you has U.S. Open type games.  

Doesn't this suggest the pro's are going to score pretty low there, even with faster greens?  

Jim,

I made a comment at lunch that basically said this...

The Open setup doctors are so precise at their craft that they can get the winning score they want within a couple strokes.  I believe the winning score at Chambers will be whatever Davis and Co. want it to be.  

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #97 on: June 25, 2013, 12:47:33 AM »
I'll take this one.  I am U.S. Open ready.

I'm a 3.2 now, 54 years old, and able to keep it into play pretty well.

I shot 86.  Mayber I shoot 90 under duress.  The average score during qualifying rounds at the U.S. Amateur was about 79.5, during very hot fast conditions.  We weren't getting any roll.

I think they can make it as difficult as they want.  The way they will make it difficult will displease many.


Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #98 on: June 25, 2013, 12:49:56 AM »
Jim, the course is playing VERY soft right now (firm for most courses) due to over-watering. It will not be anywhere near this soft for the tournament. The score will be whatever USGA wants.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA Outing: Can you break a 100 on a US Open course?
« Reply #99 on: June 25, 2013, 12:51:02 AM »
The Open setup doctors are so precise at their craft that they can get the winning score they want within a couple strokes.  I believe the winning score at Chambers will be whatever Davis and Co. want it to be.  

I'll guess 281.

Chambers Bay has some very severe pin positions.  I never thought it was this hard until playing from 7-woodland.