1st holes for C&C

[Joel_Stewart]

Reading another thread at how difficult the 1st hole is at Streamsong Red, I was thinking about some of the other opening holes that C&C have built.   Not having played all of their courses, I think it's fair to say they test you right from the start.  Some are complete ball busters.  Feel free to add you own comments.

Sand Hills, par 5.   Very difficult, sloping green.
Friars Head, par 4, not that long but a very difficult scary green.
Colorado Golf Club, downhill par 5, 653 yards.
Bandon Trails, par 4, not that long but tricky especially if you miss the green.
Kapalua, 434 yards, 520 for the pros.
Hidden Creek, par 4, 400 yards?
East Hampton ?
Olde Sandwich?
Austin Golf Club?
Cuscowilla, par 4, 380 yards, visually intimidating
Clear Creek Tahoe, par 4, fairly short.  Probably the easiest of the opening holes I have played.

[Jordan Wall]

Friars Head is an extremely tough opening hole.  Granted, you shouldn't have more than a short iron into the green but when you're facing a target seemingly on top of a mountain for your first approach of the day, it's anything but easy.  The green contours are wild too.

It's one of the most difficult sub 150 yard approaches I've ever seen/played.

[K. Krahenbuhl]

Austin GC - 434 yd par 4 (plays short for the number).
Olde Sandwich - 531 yd par 5 (easing you into the round).

[Jason Walker]

Olde Sandwich - 531 yd par 5 (easing you into the round).

OS is definitely not the hardest hole, but I felt it was a very awkward hole (not in a bad way)--nothing set up right for me.

Hidden Creek No 1 is wide open all the way to the hole with a fairly benign green.

[Matt MacIver]

Dormice is a pretty gentle handshake, a three putt is the worst of it.

[Mark Saltzman]

So is it fair to say there's no trend?

[John Kirk]

Gee, Joel, I thought Clear Creek Tahoe #1 was very tough, about 440-450 and only 45-50 yards wide, so a full straight driver is required for the opening shot.  One of the 7-8 hardest holes on the course.

 

[John McCarthy]

Having only played one C n C, The Warren, no. 1 was pretty easy but for the particular ground condition the day I played.

[Sam Morrow]

Barton Creek opens with a fairly simple short par 4. If I remember correctly the first on the 9 they did at Southern Hills is also a relatively simple par 4.

[David_Elvins]

Lost Farm is a 510 yard par 5 that is quite benign, except for the diagonal tee shot against the prevailing wind

[Craig Van Egmond]

Talking Stick North 1st hole is 379/394 yards.
Talking Stick South 1st hole is 391/405 yards.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Joel,

# 1 Red is a very, very difficult opening hole, especially with the winds that sweep the property.

It can be a round ruiner, that why I prefer # 1 on the Blue as an opening hole.

# 1's on Friars Head, Hidden Creek and Sand Hills are nowhere near as difficult.
I would not categorize them as difficult holes at all.

[Joel_Stewart]

I'll agree that Streamsong Red is very difficult.  I killed my drive and still had 4 iron into the green.

I'll disagree with you on Friars Head and Sand Hills.  The slope of those greens are very difficult and while not being "round killers" can spank you pretty hard.

Here is an old picture of the 1st at FH.

[Carl Nichols]

While they are not without some challenge, especially at the green, the opening holes at the four C&C courses I have played are really not very difficult at all:

Bandon Trails
We-Ko-Pa Saguaro
Cuscowilla
Warren Course

[Patrick_Mucci]

Carl,

I forgot about the Warren course at Notre Dame.

Joel,

A three putt on the first hole isn't a round ruiner.

At the Red you can 3 putt for an easy 8

[Michael Whitaker]

#1 on Streamsong Red is basically a par 5 for most players. If played that way it is not tough... it's just hard to make a four.

#1 at Sand Hills is a tough five. Every shot is fraught with danger. Then, once you reach the green you have your hands full trying not to three putt (or worse). I don't ever remember more than one par in my fourballs the times I played there.

[Michael Wharton-Palmer]

The opening holes at Streamsong and Sand Hills are terrific, but I agree both can get your day off to an awful start.
The two times I played the Red, 3 iron and 2 hybrid were the shots I had left after what I considered to be two well hit tee shots, then the uphill second to that false front and a narrow false front at thst ..hmmm, very tough.
Sand Hills is a masterpice of a first hole, the tee shot catches you wondering where the hell to hit it, the scond shot confuses where to leave it and how far is it to that spot anyway?
and then that green, brutal, but I love it!!

[Brad Tufts]

I wouldn't call #1 at Chechessee difficult.

Exacting maybe around the green, but only 370 slight dogleg left.

[Carl Nichols]

Carl,

I forgot about the Warren course at Notre Dame.

Have you been to South Bend?   

[astavrides]

While they are not without some challenge, especially at the green, the opening holes at the four C&C courses I have played are really not very difficult at all:

Bandon Trails
We-Ko-Pa Saguaro
Cuscowilla
Warren Course

Saguaro is 469 par 4 from the tips, with a wash some yards in front of the green.  #5 handicap.

[Carl Nichols]

While they are not without some challenge, especially at the green, the opening holes at the four C&C courses I have played are really not very difficult at all:

Bandon Trails
We-Ko-Pa Saguaro
Cuscowilla
Warren Course

Saguaro is 469 par 4 from the tips, with a wash some yards in front of the green.  #5 handicap.

But substantially downhill to what I recall was one of the widest fairways on the course.  For most who have any business playing the tips, the wash shouldn't be in play for the 2nd shot--I think it's about 60 yards in front of the green.  For those for whom the wash might be a problem, the hole is 426 yards from the white tees substantially downhill to a very wide fairway.

[Patrick_Mucci]

For all of those claiming that # 1 at Sand Hills is a very difficult to difficult hole, what club did you use for your approach ?

[Greg Murphy]

I've played Talking Stick North and South, Wekopa Saguaro and Colorado Golf Club. The openers at Talking Stick North and South are the two most insipid holes of any on all four courses combined. The theme song from "Rawhide" comes to mind. Get them doggies movin' and get the least appealing south-west oriented holes out of the way right out of the gate. I think the courses suffer a bit from the first impressions left by their openers. In terms of difficulty, they are probably each the easiest two shotters on the front side of each course, maybe the entire course. Saguaro has an opener that has more vigor and interest. Its the longest two shot hole on the front and the second shot can be from a slight downhill lie. Lots of short grass around the green which is more sloped than it appears. A nicer hole and a lot tougher hole than the two openers at Talking Stick. Colorado's opener is a completely different kettle of fish. Really gets the juices flowing standing on the tee, but has more danger lurking. The left side is death the whole way, especially at the green or on the layup. My favourite of the bunch and it has less to do with toughness than personality.

[Bill Brightly]

It was interesting playing SS Red at the same time I was working on the AAC contest. Given the location of the clubhouse (I assume that was pre-determined) the first tee site is so natural, as is the greensite. I would love to hear Bill Coore discuss the first hole and if he was bothered by its difficulty as an opener.

[Matthew Petersen]

I've played Talking Stick North and South, Wekopa Saguaro and Colorado Golf Club. The openers at Talking Stick North and South are the two most insipid holes of any on all four courses combined. The theme song from "Rawhide" comes to mind. Get them doggies movin' and get the least appealing south-west oriented holes out of the way right out of the gate. I think the courses suffer a bit from the first impressions left by their openers. In terms of difficulty, they are probably each the easiest two shotters on the front side of each course, maybe the entire course. Saguaro has an opener that has more vigor and interest. Its the longest two shot hole on the front and the second shot can be from a slight downhill lie. Lots of short grass around the green which is more sloped than it appears. A nicer hole and a lot tougher hole than the two openers at Talking Stick. Colorado's opener is a completely different kettle of fish. Really gets the juices flowing standing on the tee, but has more danger lurking. The left side is death the whole way, especially at the green or on the layup. My favourite of the bunch and it has less to do with toughness than personality.

Having recent;y made birdie on #1 at TSN, I must politely disagree. It's a fabulous hole.

All joking aside, the two firsts at Talking Stick are pretty bland. Not bad, but definitely in the tradition of the gentle handshake.

I think the first at WeKoPa Saguaro is a difficult hole. Downhil to a wide fairway but that fairway is set at an angle from the tee and it's very easy to have a shot run through on the right side of it. Plus you do have the wash and a tricky green. I think it carries an appropriate handicap, one of the more difficult holes on the front.

And then there's #1 at Kapalua, maybe the most difficult first hole I've ever played.

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