AAC III- Public Voting Results are IN!

[Alex Miller]

Jim/Alex,

Has there been any actual feedback to the contestants yet? When I look at all the submissions under the link - http://golfaac.blogspot.com/?view=sidebar - there doesn't seem to be any feedback, or am I missing something?

Some really interesting routings and the maps summarising all the holes plus clubhouse locations etc are most interesting.

Thanks for all the time and effort you've put in.

All the best.

I've started but haven't got to all of them. I can say personally I have not received any feedback yet, though it may just take some time.

[Thomas Dai]

Thanks for the update Alex.

All the best.

[Jeb Bearer]

I haven't gotten to the feedback page yet, but it's up there on my to-do list. I wanted to finish the voting first. I will say though that it's been really hard to eliminate any of the entries from the top five, everyone did a great job. Alex and Jim, thanks for all your hard work making this a success.

[Cameron DeVries]

    Yeah, fabulous job putting on the contest Alex!  Thanks to Jim for everything too!  All the designs are wonderful and it is clear that tons of work went in to each one.  I haven't received any feedback either at this point, but I've sent it to about 5 of the entrants so far...

[Josh Tarble]

I also am trying to work my way through the feedback.  Getting there slowly.

I have received a couple so thank you everyone! 

Alex,
Perhaps we could have a couple days for everyone to give feedback and then maybe we could post a paragraph (3-4 sentences) addressing the feedback.  I know I could pretty easily explain some of my choices and my layout would make a bit more sense.  I'm sure others feel that way as well.

[Alex Miller]

I also am trying to work my way through the feedback.  Getting there slowly.

I have received a couple so thank you everyone!  

Alex,
Perhaps we could have a couple days for everyone to give feedback and then maybe we could post a paragraph (3-4 sentences) addressing the feedback.  I know I could pretty easily explain some of my choices and my layout would make a bit more sense.  I'm sure others feel that way as well.

I would prefer to keep things anonymous while voting is happening, but how about this:

Everyone can email/PM me no more than 300 words (I think some sort of limit is important here to give everyone equal footing to benefit from addressing discussion on their course), that I can post as a response from each contestant. Anonymity is preserved and issues are potentially addressed.

And if we do this and people who've already sent in a ballot have their minds changed, then I would be all right with altering their choices as directed too.

Edit: Also I could edit them into the original post so they would be presented along side the entries.

[Jeb Bearer]

I also am trying to work my way through the feedback.  Getting there slowly.

I have received a couple so thank you everyone! 

Alex,
Perhaps we could have a couple days for everyone to give feedback and then maybe we could post a paragraph (3-4 sentences) addressing the feedback.  I know I could pretty easily explain some of my choices and my layout would make a bit more sense.  I'm sure others feel that way as well.

I would prefer to keep things anonymous while voting is happening, but how about this:

Everyone can email/PM me no more than 300 words (I think some sort of limit is important here to give everyone equal footing to benefit from addressing discussion on their course), that I can post as a response from each contestant. Anonymity is preserved and issues are potentially addressed.

And if we do this and people who've already sent in a ballot have their minds changed, then I would be all right with altering their choices as directed too.

I like this idea a lot. When would this be sent in? There should be ample time first for everyone to get a decent amount of feedback, it would seem to me.

[Josh Tarble]

I like that idea, but if everyone is fine with the current set up I'd be ok with waiting until after voting is done.  I just thought it would be fun to discuss the routings on here so questions can be asked and answered...but maybe that can wait until next round.

I'm cool with whatever you decide will work best, you've put in a ton of work and don't want to make you do more than you'd want to.  I really appreciate it what you've done so far and it has been a really fun project.

[Brett_Morrissy]

I think the challenge of coming up with a routing with balance and interesting hole lengths is absolute key to this, and really what it is all about. I assumed we were to actually act as though this was a real job, so, this means you have to sort out the puzzle of routing around the best possible features, but of course, you cannot have it all, and have to cull or edit where possible to fit the best routing and not justify a bunch of long holes or not enough short holes, because you couldn't get them to fit. That to me is part of the exercise - same goes for green tee transitions, if you have a great hole, but the walk is deemed too long, then you should look to find an alternative - that, I assume is there are actually professionals who do this, because it is bloody hard. I had to change my sections in my routing, reverse the nines, drop holes, and find new ones, because on closer inspection, I didn't feel the balance was correct.

[Bill Brightly]

I think the challenge of coming up with a routing with balance and interesting hole lengths is absolute key to this, and really what it is all about. I assumed we were to actually act as though this was a real job, so, this means you have to sort out the puzzle of routing around the best possible features, but of course, you cannot have it all, and have to cull or edit where possible to fit the best routing and not justify a bunch of long holes or not enough short holes, because you couldn't get them to fit. That to me is part of the exercise - same goes for green tee transitions, if you have a great hole, but the walk is deemed too long, then you should look to find an alternative - that, I assume is there are actually professionals who do this, because it is bloody hard. I had to change my sections in my routing, reverse the nines, drop holes, and find new ones, because on closer inspection, I didn't feel the balance was correct.

Good post. The thing I learned from this exercise is how difficult is is to come up with a routing with short green-to-tee walks. It gave me a better appreciation for architects who can do (or did) this on a regular basis. If this was to be a cartballers course, it would not be hard at all to come up with many cool holes, distance to the next tee be damned. And it will make me think a little less of courses with many good holes but long walks between them.

[Jim Colton]

One thing I had a hard time judging was whether or not the fairway could be seen from the tee box. Is there a rule of thumb for this? It wouldn't take much of a rise in front of the tee box to render the cool features of the fairway and strategic trade-offs tough/impossible to discern. And it's hard to know whether it was intentional or (hopefully with some inkling of the right way to go or plenty of margin of error) unintentional. I found myself lengthening a couple green to tee walks to get to a point where I felt the fairway was viewable.

[Alex Miller]

One thing I had a hard time judging was whether or not the fairway could be seen from the tee box. Is there a rule of thumb for this? It wouldn't take much of a rise in front of the tee box to render the cool features of the fairway and strategic trade-offs tough/impossible to discern. And it's hard to know whether it was intentional or (hopefully with some inkling of the right way to go or plenty of margin of error) unintentional. I found myself lengthening a couple green to tee walks to get to a point where I felt the fairway was viewable.

I did not factor this in my judging because I figured that extending the fairway toward the tee, placing an aiming rock, or digging out a couple feet of sand/dirt would solve directional question on almost every hole.

You did cause me to go have a look at my routing, but I found it reasonable that the player would know where they were going on every hole.

Agreed, very difficult to judge.

[Dieter Jones]

I've received 1 piece of feedback and provided about half a dozen so far. I am going to try and give my feedback on all 24 entrants so I started at number 1 in the list. I have since jumped a couple but I wonder if those who have received nothing yet are amongst the higher numbered entrants in the list.

The one feedback I have received so far made a couple of really good points that gave me some food for thought. That person also included their contact details which was great. There was also something which I felt I was able to explain my reasoning behind the design. This was something that a hole description and green contour map will explain, details not available to the reviewer at this stage.

[Don_Mahaffey]

How is everyone getting feedback?
I even tried to give my self some test feedback (you are the greatest type of stuff) and I get zero, nada, nothing.

Where do we go to see this feedback?

[Neil White]

How is everyone getting feedback?
I even tried to give my self some test feedback (you are the greatest type of stuff) and I get zero, nada, nothing.

Where do we go to see this feedback?

Don,

I received an email directing me to a google drive - after clicking on it I needed to log in in order to receive feedback.

Have you received the email?

[Don_Mahaffey]

.

[Steve Lang]

   BOYS BOYS BOYZ... patience,... the game and rules were set, play by them.. don't be changing them

[Brett_Morrissy]

Alex, what has been decided re the 300 words intro, has that been approved for everyone to submit this - or are we leaving the rules as originally delivered?

[Alex Miller]

Alex, what has been decided re the 300 words intro, has that been approved for everyone to submit this - or are we leaving the rules as originally delivered?

I heard positive feedback and think it would be a good idea. I like the idea that people will have the opportunity to answer some question rather than leave people without information.

Addendum APPROVED. Please provide no more than 300 words by Sunday evening 11:59 pm EST. This will give voters a week to review entries with any questions answered (or as much as possible in 300 words).

[Ally Mcintosh]

One thing I had a hard time judging was whether or not the fairway could be seen from the tee box. Is there a rule of thumb for this? It wouldn't take much of a rise in front of the tee box to render the cool features of the fairway and strategic trade-offs tough/impossible to discern. And it's hard to know whether it was intentional or (hopefully with some inkling of the right way to go or plenty of margin of error) unintentional. I found myself lengthening a couple green to tee walks to get to a point where I felt the fairway was viewable.

I did not factor this in my judging because I figured that extending the fairway toward the tee, placing an aiming rock, or digging out a couple feet of sand/dirt would solve directional question on almost every hole.

You did cause me to go have a look at my routing, but I found it reasonable that the player would know where they were going on every hole.

Agreed, very difficult to judge.

In my opinion, this is one of the keys of good routing - It is easy to place tees near to greens if you aren't going to put a premium on visibility.

But as it doesn't take much at all to render a landing zone hidden from the tee, it is far more difficult to do this whilst leaving all (or most) tee shots visible and not have to uneccesarily make a big cut.

If it were me, I'd be starting to take marks away if there were more than one or two of those "tee-shots over a gentle rise" type holes...

[Alex Miller]

Just wanted to make sure everyone was clear:

Anyone is allowed to vote (even non-registered readers of this forum), and contestants are not allowed to vote for their own entry.

Thanks 

[Garland Bayley]

Just wanted to make sure everyone was clear:

Anyone is allowed to vote (even non-registered readers of this forum), and contestants are not allowed to vote for their own entry.

Thanks 

How big is your family?
How many Facebook friends do you have?

[Steve Lang]

Just wanted to make sure everyone was clear:

Anyone is allowed to vote (even non-registered readers of this forum), and contestants are not allowed to vote for their own entry.

Thanks 

How big is your family?
How many Facebook friends do you have?

non-registered votes, does one need to produce a utility or phone bill to be identified uniquely???

AND will you distinguish the registered vs non-registered votes for each entry, for full transparency???

[Alex Miller]

Just wanted to make sure everyone was clear:

Anyone is allowed to vote (even non-registered readers of this forum), and contestants are not allowed to vote for their own entry.

Thanks 

How big is your family?
How many Facebook friends do you have?

Haha, good point. I have faith in the integrity of our contestants. There have been no "guest" votes yet anyway.


Steve, that's an excellent point. I guess I would still encourage anyone to email in a vote, but I will definitely make sure nothing seems fishy. If there are any "guest" votes, and if they influence the top 8 in any way, I will make sure they can provide some sort of proof that they've been following along and have no reason to mess with things.

[Steve Lang]

  Alex, we know you have nothing but best intentions to get things to a finishing point... keep on truckin, still a bit of a haul involved!