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Tom Kelly

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East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« on: March 15, 2013, 11:32:21 AM »
Work is taking me upto the East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife area next week and I've decided to take a few days to get in some golf while I'm up there.

I was hoping someone with more knowledge of the area could give me a few recommendations/info on some 'second tier' courses in the the area worth seeing?

The options I was considering at the moment were Elie, Crail, Kilspindie, Longniddry, Dunbar or maybe Craigelaw, though I don't know too much about any of them other than the odd photo I've seen.

Any info on them or others that I should look into would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Phil McDade

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2013, 12:32:49 PM »
Tom:

Crail Balcomie (the older of the two courses there) is well worth a round -- short, somewhat quirky, but true links abutting the firth and some very good golf as it was played a century ago.

Anstruther, nearby Crail, is a 9-hole course worth considering if you have some extra time -- a very short round, again quirky, but linksy with some interesting seaside holes.

I'd also recommend the Eden at St. Andrews -- yes it's been altered, but there are some terrific greens on the course. Likely to be far less crowded than some of the other courses in the complex.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 12:38:30 PM by Phil McDade »

Chris Shaida

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2013, 01:19:13 PM »
If you're staying Edinburgh Gullane is accessible by bus.  All three courses worth playing (passing along Sean Arble's advice to play #3 (the short or ladies course) with just irons -- greens are quite interesting.  There's a bus that takes you from George Street and drops you off at the fist tee.  Takes about 50 minutes.  The German bakery in town is also quite good!

Paul Dolton

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2013, 01:49:57 PM »
I'd put Elie ahead of Crail. Also you've got Leven Links which is slightly better than its neighbour Lundin Links but both are good.

Rich Goodale

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2013, 02:21:31 PM »
Tom

Given the weather we've had here over the winter I'd recommend only pure links courses (which knocks out Longniddry and Craigielaw).  If you are in E. Lothian play Kilspindie or North Berwick or Dunbar, and if you want to get out to links courses in Fife (hour drive from Edinburgh) play Elie or Lundin or Leven.  I'd invite you to play my home course at Aberdour, but it's a bog right now.  If you just want a beer and/or a blether, IM me, as I'll be around most of week.  Regardless, enjoy!

Rich
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

Jim Sherma

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2013, 02:43:40 PM »
I would certainly agree to Leven and Crail. I have not played Elie but I am sure it is worthy.

Crail (Balcomie - I have not played Craighead, but will add it on next time I go) might not be the most challenging course of the bunch, but I am not sure there is anyplace I would rather spend a few hours walking around playing golf.

Leven has a lot of good golf on it. Not the prettiest place, but I really liked the shots needed to get around it.

I am very enamored with the New Course, although I am not sure it is 'Second Tier' by your definition. I would certainly play it before either the Eden or the Jubilee. Of the latter two I would play the Eden 7 or 8 out of 10 plays.

Bill_McBride

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2013, 02:55:55 PM »
Elie is a ton of fun.. Two par 3's, 16 par 4's ranging from 256 to 450 yards, holes on the beach including a little 125 yard beauty.  Four of the par 4's are driveable.   There's a periscope for the starter to send you off once he's seen the fairway over the hill is clear.   Very highly recommended.

Jason Topp

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2013, 03:06:47 PM »
What is Musselburgh like in the winter?  That might be a good lower cost option close by with plenty of history thrown into the experience.

Mark Chaplin

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2013, 03:31:01 PM »
Jump on the train and play North Berwick, your unlikely to have more fun on a golf course in a long time. The train also enables a small libation after the round.
Cave Nil Vino

Mitch Hantman

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2013, 03:57:33 PM »
Dunbar is excellent.  Gullane #2 and #3 are also pretty good.  Kilspindie is a lot of fun.

John Shimp

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2013, 04:06:23 PM »
Funny start at Dunbar w two par 5s but great after you cross the street.  Really liked that place

Tom Kelly

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2013, 05:08:32 PM »
Thanks for the info guys, keep it coming!

I've spent a bit of time in Fife and have played The Eden and The New quite a few times so I'd like to see something new, though I too am very fond of the New Jim, it's the course I played most during my time there! I've also played Lundin and had a quick wander around Leven, hence thinking about Crail and Elie which I managed to miss for some reason.

One thought that has come up is North Berwick, I've played there before but only once. Do you think my time would be better spent on a repeat round there or a first time at one of the others? I did love it first time round!

As for the others it sounds like Elie is winning so far, how does it compare to the Lothian courses, Dunbar and Kilspindie.

I'll prob have time for a couple of rounds and am quite interested in the newer course Crail, worth a look or just stick to the Balcomie?

Cheers

David Kelly

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2013, 05:32:29 PM »
I would definitely take a day to go and play North Berwick, twice if possible.  To me it is on a list with Dornoch and TOC as must plays anytime you are in Scotland.

I'm also a fan of Hanse's Crail Craigshead. 
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Marty Bonnar

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2013, 05:36:53 PM »
Tom,
If you'd like to play leven at members guest rate, give me a shout!
 ;)
F.
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Tom_Doak

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2013, 10:23:10 PM »
Tom:

I've been working on rewriting this section of The Confidential Guide first, so I will share my reviews of the courses you noted below, plus a couple of others you might consider.  I don't know what kind of golfer you are, so I won't try to predict which courses would most suit you, but that's what the reviews are aimed at.  Let me know if they're of help.  I didn't include North Berwick, but it's rated well above any of these others, and it is CERTAINLY worth playing again.  I would never go to East Lothian and not play it.

P.S.  The numbers at the end are four different ratings on the Doak scale.  The first number is my own grade; the other three are from good friends who have been asked to contribute.  [Can't share their identities yet, though.]  So, you'll see that Elie and Gullane No. 1 got the highest grades from me [each a 6], and most of the others you mentioned got a 5; but perhaps my friends' opinions will help break those ties.  And even the 4's, like Kilspindie and Musselburgh, are great fun to play.


Crail G Society.  Founded 1786.  Old course by Old Tom Morris, 1892; Craighead course by Gil Hanse, 1997.                                     
     Crail is the fifth oldest golf club in the world, and it’s easy to imagine that their course has changed little in that time.  The holes tend to be short and quirky, with three greens lined up side by side at one point, and a bunch of short holes near the finish.  But, the setting at the tip of Fife includes golf holes along two shorelines.      
     The Craighead course was Gil Hanse’s first solo design, and though it was quickly overshadowed by its neighbor, Kingsbarns, its greens show the kind of detail work that makes Gil’s courses noteworthy.  In fact, it is quite a tough test, with some difficult and narrow targets, but the bunkers tend to hide from view and there are a couple of holes perilously close together.  Old course 5 - - 5.  Craighead 5 6 5 5.  [1997]


Elie Golf House Club.  Old Tom Morris, 1895, with revisions by James Braid.         
     This lovely old links was the main attraction of James Braid’s boyhood home town, with a brief stretch of inspiring holes along the coast yielding magnificent views across to East Lothian on a clear day.  The par-4 13th and the downhill par-3 3rd are the best of the holes, but most memorable of all is the opening tee shot, which is played blind over a ridge from beside the clubhouse, only after obtaining clearance from the starter who consults a submarine periscope to check on the group ahead. A crafty design, it borrows from one of the design tricks from The Old Course, namely numerous greens that tilt away from the line of play. Given its sandy soil and the usual accompanying fast playing conditions, it’s no wonder that low handicaps rarely score as they expect on this 6,300 yard course.  6 6 5 5.  [2007]


Kingarrock GC, Hill of Tarvit, Cupar, Fife.  Frederick Sharp, 1904, restored by Peter McEvoy. 2008.                                    
     This small, hilly course on an old estate was designed in the gutty ball era, and it has been restored for play with antique hickory clubs.  Simply built and simply maintained, it is a wonderful insight into the challenges of golf as the game was played 100 years ago, despite its lack of length.  It’s hard to recommend it to overseas tourists who are motoring around trying to check off famous links from their bucket list, but Kingarrock is worth the attention of anyone with a serious interest in the game of golf and its evolution.  5 - - - .  [2007]

Leven GC.  Club from 1820; course split off from Innerleven links and extended to current 18 holes in 1909.                           
     For many years, the original Innerleven course stretched along the shore between the towns of Leven and Lundin Links, with a clubhouse at each end for the resident golfers of the two towns.  When the game became so popular that the traffic doomed the ability to use two starting points, they were forced to “split the baby” in 1909, with each course gaining nine new holes further inland; but Leven drew the short straw here, as their end of the links was a bit less dramatic.  The first three holes are cracking par-4’s in rippling country near the shore, and the long par-4 18th with its approach across the Scoonie Burn provides the chance for a heroic or heartbreaking finish, but much of the stuff in between is quickly forgotten.  4 – 4 4.  [2008]

Lundin Links GC, Lundin.  Old Tom Morris, 1868; split off from Leven Golf Club and extended to 18 holes by James Braid, 1909.                     
     The opening and closing holes of Lundin Links were also part of the original Innerleven course, and these were its star attractions.  Architectural history buffs will study the short par-4 15th, which is the forerunner of the “Leven” hole that C.B. Macdonald paid homage to in many of his designs; but the cracking opener with its green high above the beach and the following three holes flush against Largo Bay are even better.  Sadly, the newer inland holes are not of the same class, but even so, more people should include it on their pilgrimage to St. Andrews.  If they ever have an open day of playing the original 18 holes between the two towns, I hope I’ll get an invite.  5 6 3 5.  [2009]


Craigielaw GC, Aberlady.  Donald Steel, 2001.                     
     Built from the farm fields immediately above Kilspindie Golf Club, the new Craigielaw course aimed at a higher degree of difficulty, and may have succeeded too well.  Its small, elevated greens are so fortified by bunkering and fall-offs that on windy days, which are hardly unusual here, even the best players are sometimes unable to find a way to hold certain greens in regulation.  - - - 4.  [2010]

Dunbar GC.  Golf from 1856, with revisions by Old Tom Morris, Ben Sayers and James Braid.                                 
     The easternmost of the links of East Lothian, the course is laid out along a very narrow strip of low-lying linksland, playing between the sea and the wall of an old estate until one gets to the far end of the course.  But, it’s got too many holes of similar length and setting to really be a standout.  5 - - - .  [2007]

Glen GC, North Berwick.  James Braid and Ben Sayers, 1906.               
     Also known as the East Links, this short and sporty cliff-top course has many detractors, but it is as beautiful a setting for the game as one can imagine, with its views out along the coast and over the town to the volcanic cone of the North Berwick Law.  Its best hole is the long par-4 ninth, playing sharply down to a lower plateau while making a beeline for Bass Rock.  The bunkering and greens design is plain and uninspired, but just this once, let’s forget about that and revel in the setting.  4 – 3 - .  [2006] 

Gullane GC.  Nos. 1, 2 and 3 courses by Willie Park, Jr., 1884-1898-1910.         
     With the creation of several new links courses in Scotland, Gullane No. 1 seems to have fallen off the radar as a mandatory stop, which is too bad since its sandy hillside setting provides more variety than many well-known links.  There is no refuge on a windy day, as Gullane Hill faces west toward the prevailing wind from Edinburgh, but on a good day the views from the top are unsurpassed and the golf is always good.                                
     I must also confess to having seriously underrated Gullane No. 2 in the previous edition of this book, and I will even put in a shout for No. 3, the 5500-yard course which has the best greens of the bunch.  My old friend Archie Baird used to play it as often as Muirfield or Kilspindie where he is also a member, and he enjoyed Gullane 3 just as much as the others.   #1 course 6 – 5 6.  #2 course 5 – 4 5.  #3 course 5 – 4 5.  [2006]

Kilspindie GC, Aberlady.  Willie Park and Ben Sayers, 1898.               
     This lovely little course occupies a broad point jutting into the Firth of Forth, just to the west of Gullane.  The small clubhouse and the par-3 1st hole are perfectly welcoming, and the par-3 8th across the beach at the far end of the course is a hole you’ll remember long afterward.  At 5500 yards from the tips, many would dismiss it, but if there were more courses like this where you could play in two and a half hours after dinner, golf in the rest of the world would be thriving.  4 – 4 - .  [2009]

Longniddry GC.  H.S. Colt, 1921, with revisions by Philip Mackenzie Ross, 1945.      
     Most of this course runs along the sea (just across the road), yet the clubhouse up on a hill gives it a different perspective than other East Lothian links, with views out to the water framed by pine trees.  There are some lovely two-shot holes in the middle of the course, but sadly they are all around 380 yards instead of a better mix.  5 – 5 4.  [1998]

Luffness New GC, Aberlady.  Old Tom Morris, 1894.                  
     Lying adjacent to Gullane #3, this is the first part of the vast expanse of 72 holes you see when driving out from Edinburgh.  The first five holes are in a small loop to the south of the road, and the rest of the links are at the foot of Gullane Hill.  The club is less dependent on visitor play than most in Scotland, so it is not as well known as it might be.  5 – 4 - .  [2000]

Musselburgh Old Links.  Golf from 1672!                        
     These small, affordable nine holes within the Musselburgh Raceway are in fact the oldest documented golf course in the world.  Between 1874 and 1889 it hosted The Open Championship six times, while also serving as home for the Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers and Royal Musselburgh Golf Club.  But its nine holes could not accommodate the growing demand for golf, so the links were abandoned by those clubs in the 1890’s for greener pastures in the more affluent suburbs, and for years the Old Links survived only because it was the infield for the racecourse; it was almost paved over for development in 1985 before public outcry saved it and some money was raised to fix it up.                    
     There is still some good golf here, most of all the long par-4 4th with its green in the far corner of the links, and the road dangerously close at hand.  Mrs. Forman’s pub behind this green was golf’s first half-way house – they served golfers drinks through a window in the wall – and it was there that Old Tom Morris had to take refuge from a hostile gallery during his match with Willie Park Sr. in 1882.  Every golfing visitor to East Lothian should stop in here to pay homage to the humble beginnings of the game.  4 – 3 - .  [2007]

Anders Rytter

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2013, 03:36:10 AM »
Tom:

I've been working on rewriting this section of The Confidential Guide first, so I will share my reviews of the courses you noted below, plus a couple of others you might consider.  I don't know what kind of golfer you are, so I won't try to predict which courses would most suit you, but that's what the reviews are aimed at.  Let me know if they're of help.  I didn't include North Berwick, but it's rated well above any of these others, and it is CERTAINLY worth playing again.  I would never go to East Lothian and not play it.

P.S.  The numbers at the end are four different ratings on the Doak scale.  The first number is my own grade; the other three are from good friends who have been asked to contribute.  [Can't share their identities yet, though.]  So, you'll see that Elie and Gullane No. 1 got the highest grades from me [each a 6], and most of the others you mentioned got a 5; but perhaps my friends' opinions will help break those ties.  And even the 4's, like Kilspindie and Musselburgh, are great fun to play.


Crail G Society.  Founded 1786.  Old course by Old Tom Morris, 1892; Craighead course by Gil Hanse, 1997.                                     
     Crail is the fifth oldest golf club in the world, and it’s easy to imagine that their course has changed little in that time.  The holes tend to be short and quirky, with three greens lined up side by side at one point, and a bunch of short holes near the finish.  But, the setting at the tip of Fife includes golf holes along two shorelines.      
     The Craighead course was Gil Hanse’s first solo design, and though it was quickly overshadowed by its neighbor, Kingsbarns, its greens show the kind of detail work that makes Gil’s courses noteworthy.  In fact, it is quite a tough test, with some difficult and narrow targets, but the bunkers tend to hide from view and there are a couple of holes perilously close together.  Old course 5 - - 5.  Craighead 5 6 5 5.  [1997]


Elie Golf House Club.  Old Tom Morris, 1895, with revisions by James Braid.         
     This lovely old links was the main attraction of James Braid’s boyhood home town, with a brief stretch of inspiring holes along the coast yielding magnificent views across to East Lothian on a clear day.  The par-4 13th and the downhill par-3 3rd are the best of the holes, but most memorable of all is the opening tee shot, which is played blind over a ridge from beside the clubhouse, only after obtaining clearance from the starter who consults a submarine periscope to check on the group ahead. A crafty design, it borrows from one of the design tricks from The Old Course, namely numerous greens that tilt away from the line of play. Given its sandy soil and the usual accompanying fast playing conditions, it’s no wonder that low handicaps rarely score as they expect on this 6,300 yard course.  6 6 5 5.  [2007]


Kingarrock GC, Hill of Tarvit, Cupar, Fife.  Frederick Sharp, 1904, restored by Peter McEvoy. 2008.                                    
     This small, hilly course on an old estate was designed in the gutty ball era, and it has been restored for play with antique hickory clubs.  Simply built and simply maintained, it is a wonderful insight into the challenges of golf as the game was played 100 years ago, despite its lack of length.  It’s hard to recommend it to overseas tourists who are motoring around trying to check off famous links from their bucket list, but Kingarrock is worth the attention of anyone with a serious interest in the game of golf and its evolution.  5 - - - .  [2007]

Leven GC.  Club from 1820; course split off from Innerleven links and extended to current 18 holes in 1909.                           
     For many years, the original Innerleven course stretched along the shore between the towns of Leven and Lundin Links, with a clubhouse at each end for the resident golfers of the two towns.  When the game became so popular that the traffic doomed the ability to use two starting points, they were forced to “split the baby” in 1909, with each course gaining nine new holes further inland; but Leven drew the short straw here, as their end of the links was a bit less dramatic.  The first three holes are cracking par-4’s in rippling country near the shore, and the long par-4 18th with its approach across the Scoonie Burn provides the chance for a heroic or heartbreaking finish, but much of the stuff in between is quickly forgotten.  4 – 4 4.  [2008]

Lundin Links GC, Lundin.  Old Tom Morris, 1868; split off from Leven Golf Club and extended to 18 holes by James Braid, 1909.                     
     The opening and closing holes of Lundin Links were also part of the original Innerleven course, and these were its star attractions.  Architectural history buffs will study the short par-4 15th, which is the forerunner of the “Leven” hole that C.B. Macdonald paid homage to in many of his designs; but the cracking opener with its green high above the beach and the following three holes flush against Largo Bay are even better.  Sadly, the newer inland holes are not of the same class, but even so, more people should include it on their pilgrimage to St. Andrews.  If they ever have an open day of playing the original 18 holes between the two towns, I hope I’ll get an invite.  5 6 3 5.  [2009]


Craigielaw GC, Aberlady.  Donald Steel, 2001.                     
     Built from the farm fields immediately above Kilspindie Golf Club, the new Craigielaw course aimed at a higher degree of difficulty, and may have succeeded too well.  Its small, elevated greens are so fortified by bunkering and fall-offs that on windy days, which are hardly unusual here, even the best players are sometimes unable to find a way to hold certain greens in regulation.  - - - 4.  [2010]

Dunbar GC.  Golf from 1856, with revisions by Old Tom Morris, Ben Sayers and James Braid.                                 
     The easternmost of the links of East Lothian, the course is laid out along a very narrow strip of low-lying linksland, playing between the sea and the wall of an old estate until one gets to the far end of the course.  But, it’s got too many holes of similar length and setting to really be a standout.  5 - - - .  [2007]

Glen GC, North Berwick.  James Braid and Ben Sayers, 1906.               
     Also known as the East Links, this short and sporty cliff-top course has many detractors, but it is as beautiful a setting for the game as one can imagine, with its views out along the coast and over the town to the volcanic cone of the North Berwick Law.  Its best hole is the long par-4 ninth, playing sharply down to a lower plateau while making a beeline for Bass Rock.  The bunkering and greens design is plain and uninspired, but just this once, let’s forget about that and revel in the setting.  4 – 3 - .  [2006] 

Gullane GC.  Nos. 1, 2 and 3 courses by Willie Park, Jr., 1884-1898-1910.         
     With the creation of several new links courses in Scotland, Gullane No. 1 seems to have fallen off the radar as a mandatory stop, which is too bad since its sandy hillside setting provides more variety than many well-known links.  There is no refuge on a windy day, as Gullane Hill faces west toward the prevailing wind from Edinburgh, but on a good day the views from the top are unsurpassed and the golf is always good.                                
     I must also confess to having seriously underrated Gullane No. 2 in the previous edition of this book, and I will even put in a shout for No. 3, the 5500-yard course which has the best greens of the bunch.  My old friend Archie Baird used to play it as often as Muirfield or Kilspindie where he is also a member, and he enjoyed Gullane 3 just as much as the others.   #1 course 6 – 5 6.  #2 course 5 – 4 5.  #3 course 5 – 4 5.  [2006]

Kilspindie GC, Aberlady.  Willie Park and Ben Sayers, 1898.               
     This lovely little course occupies a broad point jutting into the Firth of Forth, just to the west of Gullane.  The small clubhouse and the par-3 1st hole are perfectly welcoming, and the par-3 8th across the beach at the far end of the course is a hole you’ll remember long afterward.  At 5500 yards from the tips, many would dismiss it, but if there were more courses like this where you could play in two and a half hours after dinner, golf in the rest of the world would be thriving.  4 – 4 - .  [2009]

Longniddry GC.  H.S. Colt, 1921, with revisions by Philip Mackenzie Ross, 1945.      
     Most of this course runs along the sea (just across the road), yet the clubhouse up on a hill gives it a different perspective than other East Lothian links, with views out to the water framed by pine trees.  There are some lovely two-shot holes in the middle of the course, but sadly they are all around 380 yards instead of a better mix.  5 – 5 4.  [1998]

Luffness New GC, Aberlady.  Old Tom Morris, 1894.                  
     Lying adjacent to Gullane #3, this is the first part of the vast expanse of 72 holes you see when driving out from Edinburgh.  The first five holes are in a small loop to the south of the road, and the rest of the links are at the foot of Gullane Hill.  The club is less dependent on visitor play than most in Scotland, so it is not as well known as it might be.  5 – 4 - .  [2000]

Musselburgh Old Links.  Golf from 1672!                        
     These small, affordable nine holes within the Musselburgh Raceway are in fact the oldest documented golf course in the world.  Between 1874 and 1889 it hosted The Open Championship six times, while also serving as home for the Honourable Company of Edinburgh Golfers and Royal Musselburgh Golf Club.  But its nine holes could not accommodate the growing demand for golf, so the links were abandoned by those clubs in the 1890’s for greener pastures in the more affluent suburbs, and for years the Old Links survived only because it was the infield for the racecourse; it was almost paved over for development in 1985 before public outcry saved it and some money was raised to fix it up.                    
     There is still some good golf here, most of all the long par-4 4th with its green in the far corner of the links, and the road dangerously close at hand.  Mrs. Forman’s pub behind this green was golf’s first half-way house – they served golfers drinks through a window in the wall – and it was there that Old Tom Morris had to take refuge from a hostile gallery during his match with Willie Park Sr. in 1882.  Every golfing visitor to East Lothian should stop in here to pay homage to the humble beginnings of the game.  4 – 3 - .  [2007]


Sorry to hijack,

But Tom,Ii see that you have changed the grade on Lundin by two notches. Any particular reason for that or just changed opinion?

Edit: Not that i will ask a ton of questions like this when you republish, but I was surprised by the particular grade ( the  old one) for Lundin  and hence the question.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 04:10:22 AM by Anders Rytter »

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2013, 06:42:29 AM »
Anders:

I've been back to Lundin Links twice since the book was first published.

The first time, I didn't play the course, and didn't see all of the opening holes because it was so busy.  I did see a bunch of the newer holes up the hill, and was not impressed by those, hence the low grade.  But I'd missed the class of the course. 

It was interesting to see that Lundin is one of the courses which elicited the biggest differences of opinion among my collaborators -- out of 2000 courses there are only a handful where our grades differ by three points.  Even two-point differences are pretty rare.  I guess that is due to the "unevenness" of the course.  I did find that some of the finishing holes would be much more interesting for a shorter hitter than for a long knocker; I hadn't noticed that the first time.

Rich Goodale

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2013, 07:13:51 AM »
Tom D

I think you mean the 16th hole at Lundin being CBM's template for his "Leven," not the 15th.

Rich
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Tom_Doak

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #18 on: March 16, 2013, 07:53:46 AM »
Tom D

I think you mean the 16th hole at Lundin being CBM's template for his "Leven," not the 15th.

Rich

Rich:

Thanks for the correction.

Niall C

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #19 on: March 16, 2013, 08:13:20 AM »
Tom K

Lots of good advice. The only thing I would add is to Rich's recommendation about playing pure links courses this time of year and suggest you also check when you book whether play is off mats or whether you can play off the fairway. Personally I'm mostly in the rough anyway so it doesn't much bother me but you might be different.

Niall

Scott Whitley

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2013, 01:19:16 PM »
Was going to offer my thoughts but can't possibly improve on Tom Doak's vivid descriptions. Will just say I enjoyed Musselburgh Old Links more than I thought I would, mostly for the history and chance to see Mrs Forman's and the famous serving hatch. Taking the train from Edinburgh to North Berwick for the day with your clubs on your back is a fantastic Scottish experience. Elie is largely a flat,open links, punctuated by a few holes with dramatic elevation change. Great fun to play but I would still go with Berwick if I had to choose.  Dunbar quite unique for the prominence of an ancient stone wall and is the sort of course where most everything right is bad. I haven't been to Crail.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2013, 01:37:58 PM by Scott Whitley »

Carson Pilcher

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2013, 02:17:49 PM »
All of those that Tom mentioned are fun.  I like Gullane for the golf and history (Stop in Mr. Baird's place...also try to meet a member to have a pint in the club-great view).  The Glen Club has some of the best views.

Besides the "Eastern" options, do not forget that there are two trains that leave EDN for St. Andrews each hour.  One at the top of the hour and one form the half-past.  They take 60 minutes and 50 minutes respectively.  Get on at Waverley and exit at Luechars.  There are taxis waiting and the buses are timed to take you right into town once the train arrives.  Hence, you can leave at say 12:30 and be at the first tee of the New or Jubilee of St. Andrews by 1:35.  The New or Jubilee are about the same price as some of the East Lothian courses.  Yet, you will be able to go and have a pint at the Jigger Inn after your round.

This is all with the assumption that you will be traveling by train.  Taking the train to North Berwick, or any stop along the route, you have some "trekking" to do once you disembark.  Of all of the golf I have played in the area while travelling there, St. Andrews was the easiest for getting to and from the course using public transportation.

Mark Pearce

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2013, 06:13:01 PM »
Was going to offer my thoughts but can't possibly improve on Tom Doak's vivid descriptions. Will just say I enjoyed Musselburgh Old Links more than I thought I would, mostly for the history and chance to see Mrs Forman's and the famous serving hatch. Taking the train from Edinburgh to North Berwick for the day with your clubs on your back is a fantastic Scottish experience. Elie is largely a flat,open links, punctuated by a few holes with dramatic elevation change. Great fun to play but I would still go with Berwick if I had to choose.  Dunbar quite unique for the prominence of an ancient stone wall and is the sort of course where most everything right is bad. I haven't been to Crail.
Elie is flat?  In which alternative universe?
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Doug Wright

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2013, 06:20:05 PM »
North Berwick and Dunbar would be a good combination (or even both N. Berwick courses). If going to the St. Andrews side, I'd pick Crail Balcomie or Elie over Lundin Links. I was underwhelmed by Lundin Links.
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Bill_McBride

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Re: East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2013, 07:28:44 PM »
Was going to offer my thoughts but can't possibly improve on Tom Doak's vivid descriptions. Will just say I enjoyed Musselburgh Old Links more than I thought I would, mostly for the history and chance to see Mrs Forman's and the famous serving hatch. Taking the train from Edinburgh to North Berwick for the day with your clubs on your back is a fantastic Scottish experience. Elie is largely a flat,open links, punctuated by a few holes with dramatic elevation change. Great fun to play but I would still go with Berwick if I had to choose.  Dunbar quite unique for the prominence of an ancient stone wall and is the sort of course where most everything right is bad. I haven't been to Crail.
Elie is flat?  In which alternative universe?

Mark, he did say a few holes with elevation....

I must say I recall it more as rolling with a few stout hills at 1, 2, down 6, up 7, over 10, 13 green, 15, 18 uphill.  The only flat holes?  4, 5, 8, 11, 12, 16, 17?