East Lothian/Edinburgh/Fife 'Second Tier' Recommendations

[Mark Pearce]

Bill,

I think you have identified the only 7 holes you could think about calling flat.  Each of the other 11 has serious elevation change.  Of the ones you mention, though, 5 has a very significant valley then ridge before the green, 11 is downhill, if gently, and has a dune flanking it on the right which is in play and 16 has an uphill tee shot before levelling off for the approach.  I can think of many adjectives for Elie but flat is not one of them.  There are, for instance, more flat holes at Balcomie and no sane person would call that flat.

[Tom Kelly]

Thanks for all the info again guys,

Tom,
Thanks for posting all that info on the area, I really appreciate it, though I'm not sure it's helped me make a decision! It was nice to include Kingarrock, it was on my list of things to during my time in St Andrews but I completely forgot about it before I left. I was thinking of maybe coming up for the Open this summer and getting a round in at Musselburgh with Hickories or if not Kingarrock for a bit of history and fun so its on the list of things to do.

Martin and Rich,
Thank you so much for the invites and although I want to say yes, I am still uncertain on my schedule with work so I don't want to tie you down to a date/time and then have to cancel. I will let you know if I have any solid times sorted before I go. I think it will be a case of calling the courses a day before and hoping for a tee time for my games. Also looking at the long term weather forecast I am not sure whether I want to drag you from your warm homes, it looks like it is going to be COLD! Thanks again.

I will be traveling by car and staying somewhere near either the Gullane/Berwick area or over the other side of the Forth, so no need to worry about trains, though going from Edinburgh to Berwick with clubs and in tow does sound like a pretty cool experience. Also while I'm there I'll get to see Gullane and Lundin again so I'm taking them out of my equation playing wise. As for the others it seems like another round at Berwick and Elie are coming out top, lets hope the weather/schedule and a few free tee times come up!

Finally are any of the courses mentioned or other 'better' ones in the area on common land or easy to go for a quick walk over without getting in the way? If I have some time I wouldn't mind going for a walk but am wary that they may be busy at the weekend and I don't want to get in the way too much, will obviously ask in the pro shop too if it's ok. Might have time to go for a wander one evening too. I was going to head up to St Andrews on Sunday for a smooch around if I get the time, maybe walk along the beach at Berwick and have a quick look at the course before/if I don't play.

Cheers

[Mark Pearce]

Tom,

Elie starts in the middle of the village and it's very easy to walk on the holes on the other side of the little road that is behind the 3rd green and 17th green.  Indeed there are public footpaths down to the beach crossing 10 and 12.  It's very common to see walkers.  There is a public right of way along the edge of the course at Crail, too.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom:

My understanding of the Scottish "right to roam" law is that you can pretty much walk across any golf course whether it's on private property or not ... even Muirfield.

[Rich Goodale]

I'm pretty sure Tom D is right about this, but I wouldn't take it so far as to jump over the fence at Greywalls and walk down the middle of the 1st fairway at Muirfield, stopping regularly to take pictures of the architecture.....

In general, if you follow common sense and golf etiquette you can walk just about any golf course in Scotland.

[Jud_T]

Sh*t, I really want to get back there now.  Next time get as far away from the Yankee trail as possible....

[Mark Pearce]

Attempting to walk around Muirfield is almost certain to result in being asked to leave.  At other clubs you might feel a bit uncomfortable.  At many you'll be welcome.

[Tom_Doak]

From Wikipedia, these are the rules for acting responsibly when exercising the "right to roam":

The Scottish Outdoor Access Code

Take responsibility for your own actions
Respect people’s privacy and peace of mind
Help farmers, landowners and others to work safely and effectively
Care for the environment
Keep your dog under proper control
Take extra care if you are organising a group, an event or running a business

The Scottish Outdoor Access Code was approved in draft form by the Scottish Parliament in July 2003 following the passing of the Land Reform (Scotland) Act of the same year, and was accepted in February 2005.

According to Wikipedia, the right to roam includes not only walking but horseback riding.

[Niall C]

Tom D

The trouble with the Access Code is that its written in a way as to provide no definitive ruling on what is acceptable and what's not, therefore the only way to get clear rules is when some activist decides to push the boundary and the landowner pushes back leading to a court case. If ever there was legislation with conflict waiting to happen, this is it. 

Niall

[Dave McCollum]

On my only golf trip to Scotland I scouted out courses as I traveled from Edinburgh to Cruden Bay.  Park the car, look around for a couple of minutes, snap some pics, move on.  My purpose was to pick out a jet-lag course to play when I met up with friends from home coming some 10 days later on an overnight flight.  My first choice in Fife was Elie.  As it turned out their flight was delayed, luggage and clubs lost, and no golf happened on arrival day.  We did make it to Elie later in the week and it was an excellent experience.  It was a fun course and we never even noticed the 16 par 4’s and 2 par 3’s until later when chatting with some members in the house.  We also really liked the experience at Crail, although we played the Craighead track because there was a club competition going on on the old links.  We liked North Berwick (West Links) so much we played it again the same day.  Very fun golf.

[Jon Wiggett]

The right to roam allows you to walk across a golf course as long as you do not affect the playing of the game. You can walk across Muirfield and they have no right to ask you to leave though you may not be welcome as a guest player if asked to leave and you refuse. I believe most courses have come to accepted the right to roam law and I would be surprised if Muirfield had a problem so long as you behave yourself.

You may not however enter private gardens and at golf clubs the Clubhouse and immediate surrounds would be best avoided.

Jon

[Simon Holt]

Tom Kelly,

If you have a car and you are staying in East Lothian then there are over 20 courses within 15 mins drive of North Berwick.  From what I've read in this thread I would certainly play North Berwick again.  I must have played/caddied/walked the course over 1500 times and I still find fun ways to play new shots all the time.

Then, as ever, it comes down to personal preference.  If you are after what people would generally accept as links then I would opt for Gullane No. 1, Gullane No. 2 (some of the holes on the back 9 here could be the best golf on Gullane hill, the front 9 is so so), Luffness New (the most interesting greens of the courses listed, plus good bunkering) and Dunbar.  My choice would be Luffness and Dunbar but its Coke versus Pepsi comparing them to the two Gullane courses I listed.  They will all quench your thirst for good golf.

Kilspindie is a personal favourite and I like Longniddry as an alternative round in generally links style conditions, along with a treelined element.  The Glen is a nice walk and not to be dismissed on the grounds of being a little bland.  You will enjoy your 18 holes but dont expect to come away with any great insight into green contouring.

Muirfield is actually good value at this time of year and its in great condition at the moment.  Good luck trying to walk it!  You might be able to walk through it to "get to beach" but I would advise against taking any liberties, even with the best intentions.

Goswick is about an hours drive from North Berwick, near Berwick itself. (not to be confused, it sounds pedantic but no local would EVER call North Berwick, Berwick)  I really like Goswick; its dirt cheap and present great value for what you see.  There are a handful of really cool holes mixed amongst some good holes and a few very ordinary ones.  This would be the tier below the ones above but above the likes of Winterfield, Whitekirk, Royal Musselburgh, Musselburgh, Musselburgh Old, Haddington, Castle Park, Gifford and even Craigielaw.

I could give a pretty good read on Fife too but there are guys better placed to do that.  Elie is my favourite on that Forth coast but the New is my personal choice outside of the headliners in and around St. Andrews.  Scotscraig is a little further North of St. Andrews - decent but I havent played there for 10 years.

Have fun!

Simon

[Ben Jarvis]

Last year, I dropped by Muirfield on the way to St Andrews. It was about 4pm and apart from the two-ball coming up the 18th, there wasn't a sole in sight. I wanted to take a quick walk down the road and get a photo of the 18th with the clubhouse in the backdrop. Instead of just doing so, I thought I'd do the right thing and ask the Starter whether this was possible. He was friendly enough and happy to chat, but I left without taking that walk down the road..

[Tom Kelly]

I just looked at the Muirfield website and their winter rate finished last week unfortunately, otherwise at £110 I would have been tempted. I hadn't even bothered looking before as I assumed it would still be way more than that or already booked up due to their limited visitor times.

I was already thinking of visiting Goswick on the way back down south if I get the chance as I'm probably going via Newcastle anyway!

Cheers

[Tony_Muldoon]

All of those that Tom mentioned are fun.  I like Gullane for the golf and history (Stop in Mr. Baird's place...also try to meet a member to have a pint in the club-great view).  The Glen Club has some of the best views.

Besides the "Eastern" options, do not forget that there are two trains that leave EDN for St. Andrews each hour.  One at the top of the hour and one form the half-past.  They take 60 minutes and 50 minutes respectively.  Get on at Waverley and exit at Luechars.  There are taxis waiting and the buses are timed to take you right into town once the train arrives.  Hence, you can leave at say 12:30 and be at the first tee of the New or Jubilee of St. Andrews by 1:35.  The New or Jubilee are about the same price as some of the East Lothian courses.  Yet, you will be able to go and have a pint at the Jigger Inn after your round.

This is all with the assumption that you will be traveling by train.  Taking the train to North Berwick, or any stop along the route, you have some "trekking" to do once you disembark.  Of all of the golf I have played in the area while travelling there, St. Andrews was the easiest for getting to and from the course using public transportation.

Disclosure I haven’t been to St Andrews by train but… I’m thinking that if anyone wants to book a tee time allowing 1 hour for public travel, booking in and  warming up, you better hope the next 5 slots are empty.  

Tom


North Berwick is 33 mins on the train from Edinburgh Waverly and a par 5 walk to the Clubhouse.  It’s also a lovely place to hang out afterwards, before taking the train back.  In summer they now have a shack selling Lobster ‘n Chips on the Harbour Wall.

Musselburgh Old is much nearer in.  Check for a direct bus ride. I did it via the train and then had to change busses. Could hire hickories and then you don’t even have to take tools with you. Recommended.

Braid Hills in Edinburgh itself is warmly thought of locally.


Enjoy, the new job seems to be taking you to some lovely spots.

[Bill_McBride]

Tony, what is the frequency of those trains to and from North Berwick?  What a great way to go!

[Tony_Muldoon]

Greetings Bill

They are every 30 minutes (approx..) at popular times.  However later on its every hour and a half.
In late June I can catch the 5 O'clock  from London to Edinburgh Waverley, walk 3 platforms over to change trains and still have pint in North Berwick when there’s still  light.

Last August we hired a house on the Harbour approach, with  views across the Strand to the West Links from the living room, and across the  Strand to the East Links, from the bedroom.  Every other day we took the train in to the Edinburgh Festival. My wife is currently trying to negotiate time off this year. It's not right, her boss seems to have more power over her whereabouts than her husband does!

[Tom Kelly]

Enjoy, the new job seems to be taking you to some lovely spots.

This morning I was almost knee high in a wet, sloppy mess of a farmers field getting soaked to the skin in the pouring rain so it isn't all lovely spots unfortunately!

I am looking forward to the next week or so though, it should be a nice change after a few long busy weeks spent mainly in the office and is one of the bonuses of the job. The added golf whilst I am up there will be nice if the weather holds off, which I sincerely hope it does as I will be outside pretty much all week. If it doesn't, although I will have my car up there I might be looking at the trains going into Edinburgh to be a tourist for the day when the snow comes!

I'll definitely have a walk along the harbour while I'm in North Berwick as last time I was there I was in abit of a rush and although the sun was shining I didn't get a chance to see much other than the golf course.