[jonathan_becker]

For Bourgeois....

[Ben Jarvis]

For those that have played both the West and East and are familiar with where the holes are located, the order of play is as follows;

3W, 4W, 5W, 6W, 7W, 10W, 11W, 12W, 17W, 18W, 1E, 2E, 3E, 16E, 17E, 2W, 1W, 18E

I was there all day yesterday. Unfortunately heavy rainfall on Tuesday and Wednesday really softened up the greens. The forecast is for improved conditions for the remainder of the week, so lets hope the greens firm up, which will really highlight the architectural features of this magnificent course.

[BHoover]

I haven't played RM, so I can't speak about it with any authority.  But it looked great on television, and even with the rain it appeared to still be relatively firm and fast.  The feature that I noticed is that all of the par threes are less than 200 yards.  How often does that happen on a course that hosts major tournaments?  I think it's awesome that you can still have a championship-caliber test and you can do it without a "monster" par three (such as the 8th at Oakmont in the 2007 US Open).

[Chris Kane]

I haven't played RM, so I can't speak about it with any authority.  But it looked great on television, and even with the rain it appeared to still be relatively firm and fast.  The feature that I noticed is that all of the par threes are less than 200 yards.  How often does that happen on a course that hosts major tournaments?  I think it's awesome that you can still have a championship-caliber test and you can do it without a "monster" par three (such as the 8th at Oakmont in the 2007 US Open).

Brian, the composite course used to include the 4th hole on the East course, which is a 200 yard uphill par-3. It was replaced by the 16th hole on the East course for the 2011 Presidents Cup for crowd control purposes. The 16th is probably a better hole but in my view the 4th worked better as the final par-3 on the Composite.

[Chris Kane]

Mark, Ben,
No doubt it will firm up for the weekend if the rain stays away. But that isn't the point - the ground staff had the course in extremely firm and fast condition leading in to the tournament, and it would have been amazing to watch the professionals play on a course presented that way. What we're seeing now may be relatively firm that it is a shadow of what it was like a couple of months ago, and unfortunately it must be very unlikely that it will reach that high point again by next weekend.

[Mark Bourgeois]

Jonathan thanks for the map.

How does everyone feel about RMW1 as the penultimate hole? RMW3 as a starter is interesting. I've really enjoyed the play at RME1. For all the moaning about technology turning classic courses into pitch and putts it's been fun watching the players try to finesse a wedge to the green.

Chris I understand and even share your disappointment but I remain grateful for Geoff the dinosaur, without whom this wouldn't be possible.

Regarding the par 3s, RMW7 is uphill partially blind nastiness and RME16 has a few interesting hiding places for pins. So there's some shot making variety called for (potentially).

[Mark_F]

But that isn't the point - the ground staff had the course in extremely firm and fast condition leading in to the tournament, and it would have been amazing to watch the professionals play on a course presented that way.

Why would it be amazing to watch them play on a course tricked up beyond recognition?

[jonathan_becker]

 RMW3 as a starter is interesting.

Considering this is arguably the best short 4 in the entire Sandbelt, it is an interesting start in trying to stop a wedge on a green that falls away.

Hoover,

For the par 3s, each green is unique and all provide enough of a challenge to not warrant needed length.

[BHoover]

Hoover,

For the par 3s, each green is unique and all provide enough of a challenge to not warrant needed length.

Exactly, that's just one of the features that seem to make this course so interesting!

[Ryan Kelly]

Great stuff.  Thanks guys.  Exactly why I love this site.  On a side note, my parents made a trip to Australia and New Zealand last year that included golf and they asked me about where to play.  I knew where their trip/cruise was going and I told my Dad if he was that close to Royal Melbourne and the sand belt that he had to play Melbourne and Kingston Heath.  All learned from this site.  This trip was a number of years in the making for them and he called me while watching the 2011 Presidents Cup and asked about the color of the greens.  I'm sure everyone remembers that they had a great purple color to them on the weekend and I told him what I had learned and that he would love it.  They did love it, but what I learned is that what we "love" on this site is an acquired taste to most players in the US.  My parents are in their mid 60's but they love lush deep green and pristine.  My Dad and I are taking my 2 teenage sons to Bandon next year where I have been twice before and I can't wait for the boys to experience golf as it was meant to be.  Thanks for letting me rant.

[Mark_F]

Considering this is arguably the best short 4 in the entire Sandbelt, it is an interesting start in trying to stop a wedge on a green that falls away.

1 East is better Jonathan.  3 West is the most overrated hole on the Sandbelt.

[Kyle Henderson]

Considering this is arguably the best short 4 in the entire Sandbelt, it is an interesting start in trying to stop a wedge on a green that falls away.

1 East is better Jonathan.  3 West is the most overrated hole on the Sandbelt.

Um... 10 West, anyone?

It's playing as #6 this week. I say it is the best short 4.

[Ben Jarvis]

Considering this is arguably the best short 4 in the entire Sandbelt, it is an interesting start in trying to stop a wedge on a green that falls away.

1 East is better Jonathan.  3 West is the most overrated hole on the Sandbelt.

I can't believe I've just read that!! Mark, please explain why you think it is overrated.

As for 1W, it is a terrific opening hole but not a good 17th hole. Members still play the original 1959 Composite Course, in which 1W is the opening hole.

[jonathan_becker]

 3 West is the most overrated hole on the Sandbelt.

Mark,

Someone I know wrote the following for the "In My Opinion" section.    

"A mere 324 metres of ingenuity, this hole perfectly embodies Dr. Alistair Mackenzie's design ethos. A wide, seemingly hazard-free fairway falls over a slight crest; the triangular green up ahead continues to fall away from the golfer, as well as slope hard from left-to-right, away from a typically fearsome set of bunkers, yet a deep and beautifully crafted swale protects the front of the green along with more sand. Stopping a ball from a downhill lie on such a green is never easy, and recovery shots from the swale have the distressing habit of returning to one's feet if too gentle a touch is applied."

"The construction genius of Mick Morcom and Alex Russell is never more apparent than on the West Course's third hole."

Kyle,

I said "arguably".  I almost picked the 10th myself

[Mark_F]

I can't believe I've just read that!! Mark, please explain why you think it is overrated.

Mainly because of the construction, Ben.  1 East is played over a more interesting piece of land, has a more interesting green, a more interesting drive and requires more thought.  

Mark,

Someone I know wrote the following for the "In My Opinion" section.    

"A mere 324 metres of ingenuity, this hole perfectly embodies Dr. Alistair Mackenzie's design ethos. A wide, seemingly hazard-free fairway falls over a slight crest; the triangular green up ahead continues to fall away from the golfer, as well as slope hard from left-to-right, away from a typically fearsome set of bunkers, yet a deep and beautifully crafted swale protects the front of the green along with more sand. Stopping a ball from a downhill lie on such a green is never easy, and recovery shots from the swale have the distressing habit of returning to one's feet if too gentle a touch is applied."

"The construction genius of Mick Morcom and Alex Russell is never more apparent than on the West Course's third hole."

It was a fairly poetic piece, wasn't it Jonathan.  I was even kind to Kingston Heath.

[Ben Jarvis]

Mainly because of the construction, Ben.  1 East is played over a more interesting piece of land, has a more interesting green, a more interesting drive and requires more thought.  

Mark,

You're right, 1E is played over more interesting ground and is a fantastic short par-4.

I still ask, why do you think "3W is the most overrated hole on the Sandbelt", let alone just RM??

[Mark_F]

I still ask, why do you think "3W is the most overrated hole on the Sandbelt", let alone just RM?

Ben,

I have heard or seen people haughtily mention that they base their opinion on someone's golf architectural worth by evaluating their opinion on 3 West.  It is that sort of lofty pretension I am referring to.

Why is it a 10/10 world class hole?

As an aside, I was at RM today - it isn't a great venue for the Masters unless there is a much better field that will attract more spectators.  Far too spread out and open with zero atmosphere.  Of course, much of the blame for that can be sheeted home to IMG, who are the most useless bunch of dickheads running a sporting event/organisation in the country.  They even make Vlad look competent.

Tournament golf in this country is almost finished - IMG will ensure the last rites aren't too far off.

[David_Elvins]

Arguing about the best short 4 at RM misses the point that there is probably not a course in the world with 3 short par 4s of the quality of 3W, 1E, and 10W.  What an amazing set of holes - varied land, varied design, high quality throughout. 

[Mark Bourgeois]

David

That's how I've been thinking, too. A course would be more than proud to claim just one of these holes; to have all three is almost hard to believe. This said, as much as RME1 has gone up this week in my estimation, I think it is the weakest of the three.

Does the strategy off the tee vary, at least to anywhere the same degree as RMW3 and RMW10 ?

[jonathan_becker]

Does the strategy off the tee vary, at least to anywhere the same degree as RMW3 and RMW10 ?

I don't think it does but I did find a nice little flat area that i doubt gets used much for the approach.  I blocked by tee shot straight right into 8 fw on the West.  It's actually quite comfortable over there and you don't have to deal with the downslope on the second.  It's not the preferred angle, but once you get the cover number for the fronting bunker it's not so bad of a shot given it's a level lie..  Would most play the hole this way though?  Highly doubtful unless one hits it over there like I did

[jonathan_becker]

 I was even kind to Kingston Heath.

Haha!  

[Mark Bourgeois]

Does the strategy off the tee vary, at least to anywhere the same degree as RMW3 and RMW10 ?

I don't think it does but I did find a nice little flat area that i doubt gets used much for the approach.  I blocked by tee shot straight right into 8 fw on the West.  It's actually quite comfortable over there and you don't have to deal with the downslope on the second.  It's not the preferred angle, but once you get the cover number for the fronting bunker it's not so bad of a shot given it's a level lie..  Would most play the hole this way though?  Highly doubtful unless one hits it over there like I did

You mean this angle?



In the 2nd round I saw one golfer in Adam Scott's group with this angle. The flag was about where it was in the pic above, maybe a little farther right. The other two golfers were in or close to the preferred position off the tee but the out-of-position golfer hit his approach closest. But none were close and none birdied.

[jonathan_becker]

That's about right, Mark.  Here's the photo I took from over there

[Mark Bourgeois]

Good luck with that! I'll take my chances from here...



...Even though the 'preferred angle' is a knee-knocker nip wedge, too.

[jonathan_becker]

How far back does one have hit an approach to not tangle with that downslope?

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