[J_ Crisham]

I must confess that I don't understand the economics which DSchmidt provided- I'd hate to think that the margins at GW are indeed that thin.      

You don't understand that if you have 800 raters and you force them all to take at a minimum one 3 day retreat per year (so let's call it 500 people per year, because some folks go on more than the minimum) and they play an average of 5 rounds per retreat, and those rounds cost, on average $75, that's 500 x 5 x $75 per year?   That's $187,500.  And you don't get that if the event planner talks the host course into comping it all and charges the raters full boat anyway, that's $187,500?  Or that if they mark it up from there (which in my experience is the norm these days), it's north of $200K of pure profit?  C'mon, Lou. I've seen you in your underwear, heard you snore and watched you tear apart 17 holes of CPC.  I know you better than that.  You get it....

What happened on the 18th? Did Lou get booted because he was in his underwear?

[Lou_Duran]

What happened on the 18th? Did Lou get booted because he was in his underwear?

To the best of my knowledge, I haven't been booted as a guest at CPC.  It's been more than a decade, but perhaps David is alluding to a misunderstanding I had on the 16th hole with my caddie Barry (he insisted that I hit a 3-wood into a brisk wind when Goodale hit a driver on; Shivas some flatware off the rocks right, laughing the entire time the ball ricocheted into oblivion).  Come to think of it, I haven't been invited back since missing a 3' for par on 18, allowing Huntley and Huckaby to flip the bets on me and my partner (our host).  So maybe I have been and just now realized it.

[J_ Crisham]

Wow-  I had heard Lou was good- played at The Ohio State U as I recall. Very impressive and similar to a round I witnessed by Clint Squire at CPC. Perhaps he will jump in and tell it.

[Carl Nichols]

Jack, what Lou modestly and humbly neglects to mention is that he was -4 going into #16 at CPC that day...

How much revenue did that round at CPC cost the club because some or all of you were raters?   

[C. Squier]

Wow-  I had heard Lou was good- played at The Ohio State U as I recall. Very impressive and similar to a round I witnessed by Clint Squire at CPC. Perhaps he will jump in and tell it.

Not only did the horse not get in the barn, the barn was guarded by the King's Guard trained by ninjas.  Possibly the best 16.5 holes of my life.

[Lou_Duran]

Jack, what Lou modestly and humbly neglects to mention is that he was -4 going into #16 at CPC that day...

For the record, I was -4 after 13.  Bogeyed 14 (a fantastic hole IMO) overcooking a mid-iron left around the bottle.   Heard someone whisper to Sir Huntley when he joined us enroute to 15 tee "don't say anything to Lou, he's x under"; followed by having some words with Barry (who mostly refused to give me a distance, wanting to hand me a club and how hard to hit it instead) resulting in air-mailing a 9-iron to an impossible spot and making a good bogey.  All setting the stage for 16 (don't like that hole much), the infamous wind-driven 3 wood to the beach left and an eventual triple.  A tap-in for birdie on 17, followed by a bogey on 18 with a penalty for sticking a ball in a tree right of the green (which we could see, but only Barry could identify), all tallying up for a 73 with an asterisk.  I think that Goodale and I computed our best ball at something like 65.  Great day and better memories.  Your drive on #8 remains one of the most remarkable shots I've seen.  And do you remember what we did that afternoon for an encore?  I still see you racing away in your buddy's Porsche, top down, clubs sticking up between the two of you.

Jack,

I've never been very good.  I learned to play golf at OSU's Scarlet.  My skill level for most of my undergraduate years and lack of pedigree gave Coach Brown no reason to invite me on the team.  As a matter of fact, he kept his boys away from our group, though when he was travelling with the team, a few who stayed home would sometimes join our game.  Great fun and very helpful for those who strived to get better.

[Lou_Duran]

I must confess that I don't understand the economics which DSchmidt provided- I'd hate to think that the margins at GW are indeed that thin.      

 Or that if they mark it up from there (which in my experience is the norm these days), it's north of $200K of pure profit?  ....  I know you better than that.  You get it....

David,

I understand how you arrive at your conclusions.  And though Brad didn't give me the benefit of the doubt, I will give it to him and accept his explanation to you (essentially, that there is no net profit to GW from rater fees and mandatory events).

Mind you that when I was a GW rater in the early to mid-2000s, I was charged (as I recall) $100, just one time, reportedly as a fee on new raters to defray the cost of developing an online ballot system (before, Jon Cummings voluntarily compiled all the ballots using either Lotus or Excel).  At that time, the one every two year retreat attendance rule was in effect.  It was thought to be a requirement, though it was also common knowledge that a small subgroup of raters was more equal than the rest and subject to a different set of rules (e.g. I know a guy who hadn't turned in a ballot in years but remained in the panel).

Me, I attended three retreats during my time, enjoyed every one of them, and thought they were great value.  It would surprise me if GW made money on them, however, it was generally assumed that all costs incurred by GW staff attending the retreats were covered in our fees.  I did hear some comments that with the number of annual events increasing, most open to non-raters, that golf travel was becoming a profit center for the magazine.  Again, so long as the costs were reasonable, I had no issue with that.   

[Lou_Duran]

And do you remember what we did that afternoon for an encore?  I still see you racing away in your buddy's Porsche, top down, clubs sticking up between the two of you.

Well, yes, of course I remember the encore. That day was one of the greatest 36's of my life.   But I can't for the life of me recall who drove me up to O Club.  Was I there with a pal of mine?  If so, what in God's green earth was I doing bunking with you?   

PS- I hate getting old.  I can't remember squat anymore.  Hell, I don't even remember who our 4th was anymore...was it Moriarty or he-who-cannot-be-mentioned-anymore-on-GCA?

If you're getting old ......!  The itinerary: Day 1- you, Moriarty, me at Pasatiempo (the head pro played front side and was 4-5 under).  Day 2- Huntley hosts the three of us at MPCC for 36 (the old Shores had a fantastic set of greens though the new course is much better).  Day 3- Goodale joins the three of us at CPC; lunch with Bob at MPCC's halfway house; frantic drive to O-Club where Papazian talks us (you, Moriarty, and me) into a round on Lake that we finished at dusk.  Played like crap.  You decide to blow off your flight and went drinking with Gib (his Porsche, your clubs); Moriarty and I take off to SJC, getting lost enroute, he barely catching the last flight, me having to pay an extra $1k for missing mine (later negotiated by MasterCard to $150).

[Lou_Duran]

Regarding Brad using the word "revenues", I may be wrong, but I assumed that he meant profits.  Some folks confound the two, sometimes on purpose, other times because they don't think it through.  Though the revenues from events may be considerable, the cost of goods sold (what they have to pay the resorts, guest speakers, for staff transportation, etc.) is probably as well.  If there is much of a profit margin, I'd be surprised, though I have no idea what they're charging these days.  Based on the prices I saw when I was a rater, I doubt they netted enough to make it worthwhile as a profit center, though probably great fun for the staff.

[Tommy Williamsen]

I don't see it given that the Internet now provides their once important niche of reporting obscure tournament results. What good is this pamphlet mailed out for free to every course in the land?  What am I missing besides the genius of Rude?

When is the last time any of you where so bored that you actually read a copy while waiting for a tee time?

Seriously, if I can be shown of even one use for this rag that is not self serving I will embrace their values with all my soul.

Note:  I will kiss Brad's ass from here to eternity if someone can tell me how that will help the game.

I will skip all the stuff in the middle and go back to the original question.
First, most businesses are to some extent self serving.  They do want to stay in business.
I like to read GOLF WEEK and actually hold it my hands and not on a screen.  I have friends all around the country who play tournament golf and I enjoy seeing how they fared in the competition.  I do enjoy reading some the the articles on architecture and Brad's thoughts.  I am not a luddite, but I actually like the feel of paper.  I have downloaded a few books on my iPad, and yes the Bible is one of them.  I have also bought the print editions of some of them because I didn't like reading them on a screen.  I will sit in the lounge of the men's locker room and read most of the golf magazines that are there.  But that is I.  I can be over the top.
But please promise me not to Kiss Brad's ass.  The picture it conjures up is too difficult to bare.

[John Kavanaugh]

Tommy,

Do you council alcoholics?

[Evan Fleisher]

Removed.

[Eric Smith]

I don't see it given that the Internet now provides their once important niche of reporting obscure tournament results. What good is this pamphlet mailed out for free to every course in the land?  What am I missing besides the genius of Rude?

When is the last time any of you where so bored that you actually read a copy while waiting for a tee time?

Seriously, if I can be shown of even one use for this rag that is not self serving I will embrace their values with all my soul.

Note:  I will kiss Brad's ass from here to eternity if someone can tell me how that will help the game.

Just today I noticed this new billboard in my hometown:



I reckon there is more to Golfweek than you give them credit for but I don't want or care to argue with you about it. Check out a few of your favorite golf courses websites and see if they mention Golfweek. I think you likely already know the answer.

[Carl Nichols]

Jack, what Lou modestly and humbly neglects to mention is that he was -4 going into #16 at CPC that day...

How much revenue did that round at CPC cost the club because some or all of you were raters?   

Not a nickel. This wasn't a rater thing.  This was a "there but for the grace of Bob" thing. 

I was assuming that -- the question was designed as an example of revenue not lost because of rater play.

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