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Jonathan Mallard

  • Karma: +0/-0
PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« on: March 06, 2013, 03:43:18 PM »

Jonathan Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2013, 03:58:58 PM »
Do you believe this is only about lack of parking and space constraints?

Do you think that the course does not play hard enough for the PGA to host their major? (Rory shot -20 in the BMW and Fred Funk shot -20 in the 2009 Senior US Open)

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 04:48:42 PM »
If parking and space constraints are a problem, then does this rule out Aronimink as a replacement?

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Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 05:00:02 PM »
If that was a valid excuse, the PGA would have never been at Kiawah last  year.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Jonathan Mallard

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2013, 05:11:48 PM »
If that was a valid excuse, the PGA would have never been at Kiawah last  year.

That would require a journalist to pin them down and be specific on a subject. And risk losing all of his inside sources.

Nigel Islam

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2013, 05:19:49 PM »
Is Crooked Stick that limited? I am very familiar with that area of Indy, and I have played CS in the past.

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2013, 05:33:18 PM »
Translation: Not enough room for all the corporate tents. They jammed them into every nook and cranny for the Western Open. Even the press tent for the PGA is about four times the size of the Western's. No way they could fit that in, even if they used Pete Dye's backyard.

So look for the 2016 or 2018 BMW to be at Crooked Stick.
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Wayne Wiggins, Jr.

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2013, 11:14:42 PM »
If parking and space constraints are a problem, then does this rule out Aronimink as a replacement?



I hope so...  ;).

V. Kmetz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2013, 12:28:13 AM »
Without rancor or critique...objectively speaking:

If the decision to eschew a particular course from championship play is made for (what used to be) tertiary reasons such as media or corporate participation or other exploitative inclusions, then this moment in time is when the tail actually wags the dog, the master serves the servant, and the event is not to determine the best exhibitors of Golf skills - but how fiscally profitable the stagers can make the exhibition.

To be clear:

1. an eschewing of venue for competitive reasons (too low scoring, bad turf, poor climate for turf in that season) is its own matter and is altogether different set of values to be examined, critiqued and/or praised.

2. an eschewing of venue for practical reasons (inadequate parking, local lodging, inability to serve spectator flow or gallery infrastructure, basic concessions, poor range facilities) is its own matter and is altogether different set of values to be examined, critiqued and/or praised.

This, if the primary understanding of the growing thread is accurate (feasibility for maximum corporate hosting and/or tertiary media coverage is the issue) is something else again.

If healthy corporate underwriting is a necessary adjunct of the modern championship (and I think there is nothing wrong with that in principle) the PGA is then making a value judgment in their negotiations with such underwriters...

If "fulsomeness of corporate underwriting access," their 'comfort' or premium viewing or congregation/hosting points is indeed at issue, then the PGA (and any body that would follow them) has de-valued not only the competition and its commercial value but their own sovereignty to determine the best venues and championship standards a priori and it is no longer a negotiation or a limited partnership with these underwriters.

Will McGladrey or Exxon or IBM or Callaway NOT participate in the event if there are the necessary reductions in their oases made to have the tournament where the PGA determined it wanted it?  How much less participation?  To what negative effect?  If their logos are splashed on grandstands, on TV every 15 minutes over four days, on tournament programs, on internet tie-ins, or ancillary products and displays...they can STILL bargain an entire change of venue because there isn't a dedicated corporate hosting area feasible inside the plan?

I hope its not the case, but it wouldn't surprise me if it were and this is just the naked and transparent culmination of an era that has valued profits and product placement over virtues of the game competition.  Like I said about the Super Bowl and related topics to the conduct of the Phoenix Open, who wins or loses or plays the best is no longer important, its more important that the game goes on and enriches the pockets and/or experience of fewer and fewer.  Jam em' in, take every bit of coin they bring, let em go wild and have everything they ask for. 

cheers

vk
"The tee shot must first be hit straight and long between a vast bunker on the left which whispers 'slice' in the player's ear, and a wilderness on the right which induces a hurried hook." -

Scott Weersing

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 07:37:15 AM »
So where will the 2019 PGA be played?

Bethpage Black?
Southern Hills?
Torrey Pines? (probably not as the US Open is at Pebble Beach)
Liberty National
Atlanta Golf and Athletic Club?
Hazeltine (10th annv of YE Yang)
Kemper Lakes (30th annv of Payne Stewart)
Medinah (20th annv of Tiger Woords)

It could also be Whistling Straits because they can't go back in 2020 as it is the site of the Ryder Cup with Tiger as a playing captain.

Dan Boerger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 08:38:34 AM »
Steve - Aronimink certainly has the space for the corporate tents and pretty ample parking at nearby schools (which, of course, will be out of session).

Wayne - Speaking of space, they moved the hedges about 30+ yards back towards the new maintenance building on the 18th tee. Really opens up that tee area and (IMO) is a fine improvement (if mostly cosmetically).
"Man should practice moderation in all things, including moderation."  Mark Twain

Jeff Bertch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 09:08:54 AM »
For me, the "access" reasoning is bogus! Crooked stick is one of the easiest courses to get to. They use the park to the north and in my opinion, handled the large draw of the 2009 US Senior Open very well. If you ever go to an event in Louisville (Valhalla - home of the PGA), they bus you in from 4 or 5 miles away. A huge inconvenience! I think the "space" constraints, i.e. media, luxury boxes, merchandising, etc. is the better reasoning. That said, the PGA could have found a way around that if they really enjoyed the venue. They are scared of 20 under! All you have to do is shrink the fairways and grow the rough (i.e. difference between Pebble Beach for the Pro-Am and the Open). The 2009 Senior US Open was set up easy and the BMW last year was plagued by rainy, soft conditions...they were throwing darts!
you know...a caddie, a looper, a jock

Sam Morrow

Re: PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2013, 10:49:48 AM »
Maybe this is where The PGA brings out a surprise nobody thinks of.  The only reason I say that is that at my course yesterday I met a man from the Denver area who claimed that Castle Pines wants to get back in the game for hosting events. He was a nice guy who seemed knowledgable but he could have been full of it. Denver in August would be much cooler than most of America though.

Tim_Cronin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2013, 01:59:07 PM »
Castle Pines might also bring you four straight days of thunderstorms. That was a problem with the International.
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Sam Morrow

Re: PGA passes on Crooked Stick for 2019
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2013, 02:02:01 PM »
Castle Pines might also bring you four straight days of thunderstorms. That was a problem with the International.
I remember watching that those storms were amazing looking, they looked like something from a painting.

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