Greatest in the World. Who belongs in the conversation?

[Bill McKinley]

Lots of time and thought and whatnot is spent on ranking courses. Some us on here pay attention to it, some of us don't, and some of us say they don't care, but really they do. 

I was recently talking to some folks about great golf courses and then someone said that instead of being numbered, they should be grouped. So naturally the first group would be "The Greatest" or something like that. So my question to this group of knowledgeable golfers, or morons, is who has a seat at the table for greatest in the world?

It could be 1 or it could be 20 (although 20 seems a bit excessive to me). I'll post my list, and you post yours...

In no particular order:

Pine Valley
Augusta National
TOC
Royal Melbourne
Shinnecock Hills
NGLA
Oakmont
Sand Hills
Royal County Down
Cypress Point

I will be looking at the responses and kind of keep score as to what people say. Also, I haven't played all these places but I feel as though I can still have opinion as to what is in the conversation.

[Mac Plumart]

When you cut to the chase, there are only 5 "greats"...

Pine Valley
Cypress Point
Royal Melbourne
St. Andrews Old
Dismal River



 

[Mark Saltzman]

Dismal River

Old or new?   


But, Mac, are you serious about the rest of your list?

I don't know how you can say Cypress Point belongs on that list but not Shinnecock?

Or St Andrew's but not County Down or Muirfield.

If we're talking about the discussion for world's greatest, I think the list is longer than 4 (or 5).

[Mac Plumart]

Mark,

I'm just being stupid.

But in all seriousness, that list of greatest is maybe 10deep.


I think these would have to be on it for sure...

Pine Valley
Cypress Point
Royal Melbourne

[Joel_Stewart]

Greatest what?  Greatest experience, Greatest course for a professional tournament, Greatest architecture?

To me, Pine Valley is 20% better than anything else I have played in the United States.

Is there any question that Royal Melbourne is the best course in Australia?  Royal County Down in Ireland? The Old Course in Scotland?

The list gets pretty small when you narrow it down.

It's like some of these Idol shows, when you get down to the last few, hard choices need to be made.

[Mac Plumart]

hard choices need to be made.

Well...make'em, Big Dog.  What's your list?

[BHoover]

I'll take a crack at this. In my opinion, the list would be:

TOC
Royal Melbourne
Augusta National
Muirfield
Pine Valley
Shinnecock
Cypress Point
Royal County Down
Sunningdale Old
Oakmont

[Bart Bradley]

I'll take a crack at this. In my opinion, the list would be:

TOC
Royal Melbourne
Augusta National
Muirfield
Pine Valley
Shinnecock
Cypress Point
Royal County Down
Sunningdale Old
Oakmont

Brian

I have played 7 of those and can verify that RCD, Sunningdale Old,  Muirfield and Oakmont are NOT the world's greatest course.  That leaves Shinnecock, TOC and Royal Melbourne on the list.  I'll get back to you Thursday afternoon about Cypress  .  Haven't played Pine Valley although I trust it should be in the running.

So I got 5 possibilities

Royal Melbourne (my number 1 so far)
Pine Valley
Shinnecock
TOC
Cypress Point

Humbly, just my opinion.

Bart

[Mark Saltzman]

Bart, National is not a candidate?

[Bill McKinley]

Joel,

I guess that's up to you what makes it great. Most of those things you said are part of it I guess. But at the end of the day like you said, hard choices have to be made. For me, I rank Merion as my favorite course that I've played. But I didn't put it on my list.

[Bart Bradley]

Bart, National is not a candidate?

Mark

Maybe.  I haven't played there either.  Fair enough to add it, giving me six.  ANGC might give me 7 ..

Bart

[Michael George]

Until I have played all of them, I simply don't think it is possible to give a list. I will say that there are 2 courses that I have played that are a cut above the others - Sand Hills and Pacific Dunes - and I find it hard to believe that other courses are going to be noticeably better than these 2 gems.

[Bill McKinley]

Michael,

I agree with what you said for sure. But, I guess this is more educated guessing or researched opinions than anything. Remember the question I asked was "what course do you think is in the conversation". I can't fault your approach though. I guess that could lead to another question, like "which courses that you've played do you believe could be the greatest?

[Michael George]

Bill- the topic is fine. I just have learned not to judge greatness until I see it. While I like Oakmont, I don't think it is in the class of Sand Hills and Pacific Dines in terms of enjoyment.  Thus my original post.

[Ron Csigo]

Royal Dornoch should be in the mix.

[Bart Bradley]

Royal Dornoch should be in the mix.

Ron

Played there too.  Very very good.  Best in the world ?  Not for me.

Bart

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

Shinnecock and Pine Valley are my top two (which I have played).

I had the fortune to play both in a 4 day span.  I couldn't look at another golf course for long time after that.

[Joe Bausch]

I had the fortune to play both in a 4 day span.  I couldn't look at another golf course for long time after that.

I played Karakung and Byrne in a similar span of days and sort of had the same feeling.   

[Mark Chaplin]

Bart replace your divots Swampy is in town and following in your footsteps.

[Bart Bradley]

Mark

Huh?

Swampy?

You lost me my good man.

Bart

[David_Elvins]

In the mix for me: Barnbougle Dunes, Royal Melbourne West and The Old Course.

Not in the mix for me: Merion, Pebble Beach, Sunningdale, Pacific Dunes, and everything else I have played. 

(Not that it really matters, I can enjoy a course that isn't 'the best' plenty.)

[Mark_F]

In the mix for me: The Old Course.

I bet you wouldn't have said that before Hawtree's changes David.

[Scott Warren]

Bart,

Swampy = Mark (he plays well on shit golf courses) and he's hot on your heels at CPC.

Anyone nominating courses they haven't played is kidding themself. Increasingly a bugbear of this site. May as well review a film you haven't seen or comment on the flavour of a meal you haven't eaten.

My top tier is Pine Valley, National Golf Links and Royal Melbourne (West). Sand Hills and Prairie Dunes are very close, but not quite among that top trio.

And I agree there is a lot of merit in ranking courses this way. There's a lot of variables, differences that add up to issues with a numerically ordered ranking.

[Mark Pearce]

Is there any question that Royal Melbourne is the best course in Australia?  Royal County Down in Ireland? The Old Course in Scotland?

I don't know about Australia or Ireland but There are two courses I have played in Scotland that I believe are better courses than the Old Course.  I'm also aware that many others share that view.

For me the courses I have played that belong in the conversation are Cypress Point, Royal Dornoch and Muirfield.

I would be surprised if, having played them (which I have not) I didn't want to include RMW and Pine Valley in the conversation.

[Ally Mcintosh]

Is there any question that Royal Melbourne is the best course in Australia?  Royal County Down in Ireland? The Old Course in Scotland?

Can't talk for Australia... Could talk for Scotland but there are a couple of courses I haven't seen... Can talk for Ireland and in my opinion I have a top group of five (RCD, Portrush, Ballybunion, Lahinch, Portmarnock), any of which I could argue above the next on any given day of the week... So there's doubt about RCD being a cut above the rest for me...

Looking forward to my first "proper" golf trip to the States this August where it is to be hoped that I'll be seeing one or two of the contenders...