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Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« on: March 06, 2013, 04:46:08 PM »

Was intrigued to see Schmidt/Curley's "fantasy" course get some coverage in the press yesterday, largely for the fact it incorporates some odd elements into design -- a bowl of noodles as an island green, for instance. The story is here:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameon/2013/03/05/fantasy-golf-course-noodle-bowl-china/1964759/

"Traditionalists will probably hate it," says design guru Brian Curley, principal partner in Schmidt-Curley, the company behind the 22 courses that make up the Mission Hills complex in Hainan Island.

"But this is real golf, with real clubs on real fairways," he told CNN.

Very Desmond Muirhead to my way of thinking, but then again, Stanley Thompson incorporated examples of dragons into his bunkers. So maybe not as crazy as it initially seems?

Thoughts? Would you want to play it?

I know Shackelford covered this off a couple of months back, but it is back in the news in the past day or two -- not quite sure why.

Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Peter Pallotta

Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2013, 09:04:11 PM »
Robert - I can see the possibilities now, this basic template being replicated on other courses in other countries around the world, carefully tailored to fit the land and the culture. So in Italy, an Alps hole of spaghetti and meatballs; in Canada, a Redan in the shape of a PEI potato; and in Spain, a Short taken straight from the tapas plate. Before you know it, this innovation will become as traditional as a short Par 4 like the 10th at Riviera, or the angled green on a Par 3 like the 12th at Augusta -- and so innovation will blur into tradition and vice versa, and no one will ever "hate" any golf hole every again! You have to admit, the chopsticks do add a welcomed touch of authenticity.

Peter

David Harshbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2013, 09:49:16 PM »
This is the 12th! course at Mission Hills Haikou.  Why the heck not? 

The noodle bowl design was one of the 3 winners of their armchair architect contest.  Cool to see it is the signature hole.

I hope to play this course, and hope it is still open by the time I have a chance ;-)

The trouble with modern equipment and distance—and I don't see anyone pointing this out—is that it robs from the player's experience. - Mickey Wright

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2013, 11:53:11 PM »
I wonder if the noodles are free floating and if they will put the smell of soup in the air.  Then they could be piles of rice to make it look like sand.  The tee markers could be dead ducks like you see hanging in the markets in Chinatown.  The golf carts could be custom made to look like rickshaws.   Brian Curley has lost his mind.  In 5 years he will be regret this decision. 


What's next, a toilet?  Maybe a urinal with a backstop.

Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2013, 10:57:31 AM »
Joel: I kind of agree that there's a point where an architect has sold out -- and this might be it. I understand giving into a client on some decisions, but you are right -- if they wanted a pisser as a hole with some soap puck-shaped bunkers, would he have done that as well?
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Michael Dugger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2013, 12:00:37 PM »
One more time guys, it's the 12th course at the facility.

You would probably "sell out" as well, if your client commissioned you to design 12 courses.



What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2013, 12:35:56 PM »
I think it really depends on the quality of the noodles...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2013, 01:00:59 PM »
Joel: I kind of agree that there's a point where an architect has sold out -- and this might be it. I understand giving into a client on some decisions, but you are right -- if they wanted a pisser as a hole with some soap puck-shaped bunkers, would he have done that as well?
I wonder if the noodles are free floating and if they will put the smell of soup in the air.  Then they could be piles of rice to make it look like sand.  The tee markers could be dead ducks like you see hanging in the markets in Chinatown.  The golf carts could be custom made to look like rickshaws.   Brian Curley has lost his mind.  In 5 years he will be regret this decision. 


What's next, a toilet?  Maybe a urinal with a backstop.

Come on guys, really? You're not seriously suggesting this JUST goes over the edge? This is so far removed from real design that no vaguely intelligent golfer could take it seriously. On the other hand, if the architect is taking himself seriously over this, that's another matter.....

As Jud suggested, this is the approach to such a thing:

I think it really depends on the quality of the noodles...

 
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2013, 01:17:43 PM »
Pretty sure Brian Curley posts here once and a while.
Maybe he can provide some insight.

Robert Thompson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2013, 04:55:10 PM »
It'd be interesting to ask the architects here whether, given the slow state of development, they'd be willing to work with a client who asked them to build this monstrosity. That would be an interesting query.
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Jim Haley

Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2013, 08:29:06 PM »
Interesting comments and ideas floating around here...given the state of the current golf industry in the US, maybe it's time we all get creative and think about how to spice up a golfer's experience! It may be time for us all to remember the vast majority of golfers will never recognize a designers name, but they sure will talk about island greens (whether it's 17 at Sawgrass or in the middle of a bowl of noodles...)!!!!

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2013, 08:34:34 PM »
You could have a nifty promotion offering lifetime free golf for anyone making an ace by banking it off the chopsticks...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2013, 08:43:49 PM »
 8) ... and once upon a time folks were upset at the Tour 18 concept..

i view this all as the David Letterman perspective.. if they are willing to pay you that much for that work, go for the money!
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

Sam Morrow

Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2013, 09:04:34 PM »
Are they going to sell naming rights to the noodle bowl hole?

Peter Pallotta

Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2013, 09:08:51 PM »
Jim -
I usually try to be fair minded in my comments, and I often take the 'other' point of view and try to see its strong points if for no other reason than to balance out my essential biases/perspective/tastes.

Maybe having been born and raised in a downtown core of a big city, I never had much nature and natural beauty in my life, and so now crave it in as many places as I can find. The golf course is, or could be, or used to be, one of the places where I found it. Peace, quiet, nature, and the absence (or apparent absence) of the hand of man, and all the signifiers and signs that go with it.  

I understand: gca is about creating fields of play, a place for golfers to play golf. I like the game, and slowly growing to love it.. But if golf courses become amusement parks, i.e. if anything goes now in terms of features and looks that get over-stimulated golfers to sit up and take notice, then one of the charms -- and for me, one of the great charms -- of golf will be gone for good.

That bowl of noodles is ugly and expensive and better suited to Disneyland than a golf course. Believe me: I fully support and understand Mr. Curley's desire to make a living in a tough business, and his absolute right to do so in any way he deems best/necessary. But I'm not going to give up my right to criticize the finished product, or to hope that such a golf hole is mocked so soundly that no one else will try it for decades to come.  

Sam Morrow

Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2013, 09:12:43 PM »
Jim -
I usually try to be fair minded in my comments, and I often take the 'other' point of view and try to see its strong points if for no other reason than to balance out my essential biases/perspective/tastes.

Maybe having been born and raised in a downtown core of a big city, I never had much nature and natural beauty in my life, and so now crave it in as many places as I can find. The golf course is, or could be, or used to be, one of the places where I found it. Peace, quiet, nature, and the absence (or apparent absence) of the hand of man, and all the signifiers and signs that go with it.  

I understand: gca is about creating fields of play, a place for golfers to play golf. I like the game, and slowly growing to love it.. But if golf courses become amusement parks, i.e. if anything goes now in terms of features and looks that get over-stimulated golfers to sit up and take notice, then one of the charms -- and for me, one of the great charms -- of golf will be gone for good.

That bowl of noodles is ugly and expensive and better suited to Disneyland than a golf course. Believe me: I fully support and understand Mr. Curley's desire to make a living in a tough business, and his absolute right to do so in any way he deems best/necessary. But I'm not going to give up my right to criticize the finished product, or to hope that such a golf hole is mocked so soundly that no one else will try it for decades to come.  

Maybe this will start a new golden age in templates. Think, the noodle bowl at Mission Hills, the next course at Streamsong could have a hot dog hole, Augusta a pimento cheese sandwich hole, and Olympic can have a burger dog hole.

As ridiculous as I think the idea sounds I like the noodle bowl hole, it's different, you've got 12 courses on property, why not do something crazy? If anything it will get people talking.

B. Mogg

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #16 on: March 07, 2013, 10:27:54 PM »
Jim -
I usually try to be fair minded in my comments, and I often take the 'other' point of view and try to see its strong points if for no other reason than to balance out my essential biases/perspective/tastes.

Maybe having been born and raised in a downtown core of a big city, I never had much nature and natural beauty in my life, and so now crave it in as many places as I can find. The golf course is, or could be, or used to be, one of the places where I found it. Peace, quiet, nature, and the absence (or apparent absence) of the hand of man, and all the signifiers and signs that go with it.  

I understand: gca is about creating fields of play, a place for golfers to play golf. I like the game, and slowly growing to love it.. But if golf courses become amusement parks, i.e. if anything goes now in terms of features and looks that get over-stimulated golfers to sit up and take notice, then one of the charms -- and for me, one of the great charms -- of golf will be gone for good.

That bowl of noodles is ugly and expensive and better suited to Disneyland than a golf course. Believe me: I fully support and understand Mr. Curley's desire to make a living in a tough business, and his absolute right to do so in any way he deems best/necessary. But I'm not going to give up my right to criticize the finished product, or to hope that such a golf hole is mocked so soundly that no one else will try it for decades to come.  

Maybe this will start a new golden age in templates. Think, the noodle bowl at Mission Hills, the next course at Streamsong could have a hot dog hole, Augusta a pimento cheese sandwich hole, and Olympic can have a burger dog hole.

As ridiculous as I think the idea sounds I like the noodle bowl hole, it's different, you've got 12 courses on property, why not do something crazy? If anything it will get people talking.

The only problem is - this is China. If it proves popular, every developer will want a bowl of noodles, or Peking Duck on his course!

Sam Morrow

Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #17 on: March 07, 2013, 10:30:26 PM »
Jim -
I usually try to be fair minded in my comments, and I often take the 'other' point of view and try to see its strong points if for no other reason than to balance out my essential biases/perspective/tastes.

Maybe having been born and raised in a downtown core of a big city, I never had much nature and natural beauty in my life, and so now crave it in as many places as I can find. The golf course is, or could be, or used to be, one of the places where I found it. Peace, quiet, nature, and the absence (or apparent absence) of the hand of man, and all the signifiers and signs that go with it.  

I understand: gca is about creating fields of play, a place for golfers to play golf. I like the game, and slowly growing to love it.. But if golf courses become amusement parks, i.e. if anything goes now in terms of features and looks that get over-stimulated golfers to sit up and take notice, then one of the charms -- and for me, one of the great charms -- of golf will be gone for good.

That bowl of noodles is ugly and expensive and better suited to Disneyland than a golf course. Believe me: I fully support and understand Mr. Curley's desire to make a living in a tough business, and his absolute right to do so in any way he deems best/necessary. But I'm not going to give up my right to criticize the finished product, or to hope that such a golf hole is mocked so soundly that no one else will try it for decades to come.  

Maybe this will start a new golden age in templates. Think, the noodle bowl at Mission Hills, the next course at Streamsong could have a hot dog hole, Augusta a pimento cheese sandwich hole, and Olympic can have a burger dog hole.

As ridiculous as I think the idea sounds I like the noodle bowl hole, it's different, you've got 12 courses on property, why not do something crazy? If anything it will get people talking.

The only problem is - this is China. If it proves popular, every developer will want a bowl of noodles, or Peking Duck on his course!


You wanna go in halfsies on trademarking these templates?

Frank M

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles New
« Reply #18 on: March 07, 2013, 11:02:32 PM »
Not sure what this thread is about.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2024, 09:43:18 PM by Frank M »

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2013, 07:29:13 AM »
National Socialism was popular as well.
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Sam Morrow

Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2013, 07:35:05 AM »
National Socialism was popular as well.
Dennis Rodman as marketing director?

Brad Klein

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2013, 07:42:27 AM »
Long March Country Club; can't wait to see the hole devoted to the Cultural Revolution. Collectively, the par-3s will be known as The Gang of Four. Yardage map to be issued as Mao's Little Red Book. Or are they only going to celebrate the most cliched elements of China kitsch?

Ron Farris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mission Hills Fantasy course and a bowl of noodles
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2013, 08:16:08 AM »
Ying and Yang
In China there are a lot of thing that are not as they appear.
I hope to play this hole for the sake of Ying cause I can go down the street and play Yang.
One day there will be a Doak course in china that will likely Ground people and realign thinking in the Middle Kingdom.
Plus there are a few other sites rumored to be back to the roots.

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