[jonathan_becker]

Until I had arrived in Melbourne, I didn’t realize how much of a topic St Andrews Beach was amongst the local golf aficionados.   Among the things I heard, some told me it’s too tough of a walk (I walked and survived along with Ross Tuddenham and local celebrity Mark Ferguson), too many blind shots, some think 3 green isn’t receptive enough on the approach (I held the green downwind), many think the 9th green is too wild (3 jack for me) some think the 10th green is too small of a target (I hit it to 10 feet with a 3 iron), and others told me the gaps between holes were too significant (ok, maybe).  Well, aside from those things mentioned, and those were brought up the most to me, I felt that St Andrews Beach was a wonderful golf course and a course that all visitors to the Melbourne area should definitely play.

The property is beautiful, the hole corridors and the width is tremendous to allow for the strong winds, the turf was firm and fast, there are a couple amazing shorts 4s in holes #2 and #14 (especially #2), the 3rd and 13th greens sit in a cool stadium type of bowl, there’s an excellent par 3 in the uphill 6th where the green is situated on top of a ridge, the wild undulations on the 14th fw were cool, there’s the redan-esque kickboard on the 16th, and I thought that 18 green was beautifully situated in its surrounds.

I hit every club in my bag at least once, I didn’t lose a ball (and it was fairly windy), and the course presented itself in being suitable for all levels of players.  Whether or not you’re a fan of SAB ( I definitely am ), like I said, all visitors to the area should head down to play it.  Oh, and for all the discussion that comes with the course, I got to enjoy this fast course with plenty of ground movement, beautiful views, and interesting and varying greens for the tidy sum of $59 AUD.  Try and top that anywhere else!

Now a  few photos….


As always in Australia



Bombs away on #1



Up the hill on David Elvins’ favorite short 4 in the world



Approach into the 3rd



short of 3 green



Par 3 #4 – reminds me a little of #13 at RCCC



5 tee



Up the hill on the 6th



Green from the left



The cool 7th green from 8 tee



8 tee



9 from the back tee



10 tee or #1 at Shinnecock? 



10 green from back left



Par 3 11th



Looking up 12 from the outside of the dogleg



Up over the rise on 13



Flag high left off the tee on 14



15 tee



Down the hill on the redan-esque 16th



17 tee



17 green from the far left up towards 18



From the right fw bunker on 18

[Jason Goss]

Great photos.  That place looks like a riot to play.  Turf looks amazing.  Do you know the turf type? 

[jonathan_becker]

Jason,

Others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's legend couch with A4 bent greens.

[Thomas Dai]

The Aussies might not hold The Ashes at the moment and their swimming team might have been really poor at the most recent Olympics, but bloody hell, they sure have some amazingly golf courses, especially around Melbourne and the Mornington Peninsula. Firm and fast and bouncy? I hope so. Very jealous (in respect of golf, not cricket or rugby) to say the least, especially given the cheap green-fees at places like St Andrews Beach. Is there a better area to live in for an avid golfer than south of Melbourne? A topic in it's own right maybe? Although I wish the locals didn't allow street names like "Trent Jones Drive". What next "Earth Movers Crescent", "Long Teeing Ground Avenue"? Tee hee.

All the best

[Tim Leahy]

The area looks just like the No. Cal. foothills where I am from. Wish someone would build a course like this here.

[Rick Shefchik]

I never would have noticed had it not been for Michael Whitaker's comments about Streamsong Blue, but there do seem to be a lot of uphill holes here.

[Tim_Weiman]

Jonathan,

St Andrews Beach is my favorite course Tom has done. Love the place and very much wish it wasn't so far from Houston, TX where I live.

Thanks for posting the pictures.

[Carl Nichols]

The Aussies might not hold The Ashes at the moment and their swimming team might have been really poor at the most recent Olympics, but bloody hell, they sure have some amazingly golf courses, especially around Melbourne and the Mornington Peninsula. Firm and fast and bouncy? I hope so. Very jealous (in respect of golf, not cricket or rugby) to say the least, especially given the cheap green-fees at places like St Andrews Beach. Is there a better area to live in for an avid golfer than south of Melbourne?

Pretty rotten weather also....

[David Davis]

Great photos....I'm kicking myself that this wasn't finished the last time I was in OZ. I hadn't even heard of it and it looks brilliant. To think I stayed right up the road at the Cape Schanck Lighthouse when I played The National.

[Dominic Meese]

Jonathan, the summary in your first post sums up SAB beautifully. One of my favourite courses. I'm lucky to only live an hour and a bit away. The 2nd is one of my favourite holes I've played. It, and RMW3 are my favourite short 4s.

Knowing you also played RMW, I'd be interested to see which you preferred of those two holes.

Your photos have motivated me to go back to SAB ASAP!

[Mark_F]

Nice photos Jonathan. 

The course is in as good condition through the fairways and greens as it was when it was a private course, but every time I go back there, I am amazed at how much the off fairway areas on some holes have grown. 17 is the worst example, but 6 doesn't look too flash from the back either. 

The only other annoyance is that the pins were in exactly the spots you would have picked beforehand.  It would be great to go there and see front left on 4, far right on 5,  front crown on 6, back right on 8, front on 9, middle left edge on 12, or back left on the ridge on 18. 

[Tom_Doak]

Aw, how I miss that place.  The golf course was just laying there ... in that respect it is the closest thing I've ever done to Sand Hills. 

I'm always amazed that the Aussies try to find stuff to knock it for.  I guess Barnbougle was a tough act to follow.  If we had it in Traverse City, I would play there every day I was home.

[Tyler Kearns]

Tom,

St. Andrews Beach is spectacular, and the only real knock I could give it was the tough climb following the 18th green back to the clubhouse!

One of the things I remember learning from playing the course was the concept of playing for the back of the green (on the fly) on holes No. 3 and 9 as the terrain was too steep or narrow short to make running a ball into the away sloping green the optimal play for me.  It just seems to go against conventional wisdom, owing to the fact that the majority of greens slope back-to-front and golfers by nature tend to under club.  It helped to create a little uncertainty in approaching these greens with more club than I would otherwise require.

TK

[Mark_F]

I'm always amazed that the Aussies try to find stuff to knock it for.  I guess Barnbougle was a tough act to follow. 

Tom,

Of course Barnbougle was a tough act to follow; it's a user friendly public course. St Andrews Beach has a touch of nastiness about it. 

Most people base their dislikes of the course around personal perceptions.  It is a more difficult walk than the Sandbelt courses, but I find it much easier to walk than Barnbougle. It's amazing how many blind greens aren't so blind when you hit it into the right spot on the fairway.    It isn't as linksy a course as Barnbougle, but features more links-type features.   Even the nature of which holes are any good is widely varied.  Nearly everyone picks 15 as the worst or second worst hole on the course, but it is amongst my 2 or 3 favourite holes.  The first hole is a perfect opening par five for the better player.

[Michael Goldstein]

Those Aussies do complain a lot. 

This is a great course, thanks for the photographs.

 

[Bart Bradley]

Is there anyone else here who has played St. Andrews Beach and Streamsong Blue?  If so, which do you prefer?  Why?

Bart

[jonathan_becker]

Dominic,

As for SAB 2 vs RMW 3, I can't really pick a preference because I played SAB once and RMW three times.  I would need to play SAB a few more times.

Based on my limited experience, I would say the tee shot on SAB 2 is probably more interesting because there's a legit chance at driving the green and there are also a number of layup avenues that one can take which all create different looks for the approach.  RMW 3 isn't really driveable so to speak.  However, the approach is probably more interesting on RMW 3 because the green slopes front to back and the player has to contend with the fronting swale.  That approach is unlike anything I've seen anywhere!  Both are world-class holes though and both take some definite decision making and commitment from the player before any shot is struck.

[jonathan_becker]

Tom D,

One aspect that I really enjoyed at SAB was the huge scale of the holes.  Similar to RCCC and Old Macdonald, SAB provided huge corridors that promoted a lot of creativity and freedom off the tee.  Even with some wind, there was still more than enough room for me to make decisions on how much hook or fade I wanted to impart on the ball to try and get in an ideal position for the second shot.  It was really a lot of fun in that regard.

[Tim_Weiman]

Bart,

I have played both St Andrews Beach and Streamsong Blue and prefer SAB, but I am hard pressed to articulate exactly why. The funny thing is that while playing Streamsong Blue recently, it did evoke thoughts of SAB. I can't think of another course TD has done that makes me feel that way.

My first visit to SAB came during the Renaissance Cup trip several years back when Cape Kidnappers and Barnbougle were the stars of the show and perhaps deservedly so. Both CK and Barnbougle are places you should visit at least once in your life. CK has that "8th wonder" aspect, a bit like the Old Head has but it is a far better golf course. Barnbougle goes the next step: the adventure through Melbourne and then on to Tasmania eventually making it to Bridport is also one of those "once in a lifetime" experiences. Then, the golf course, though less dramatic than CK, is really better with far more interesting shots,

Still, SAB emerged as my favorite. No drama, just a very natural environment and more holes and golf shots I would enjoy playing over and over again.

That brings me to one conclusion about Streamsong Blue. I think there is a difference between the golf course and the venue (a resort open to the public). The Blue has that "shots you want to play over and over again" quality. That I love. However,  I can't help but wonder if that quality aligns with the concept of a resort.

Pebble Beach feels like a resort. Every golfer should play it at least once and, fortunately, I got to do so 5-6 times 20-30 years ago. But, as great as it is I have no burning desire to play it again, certainly nothing like I feel for SAB. I miss SAB but really have no passion for Pebble.

The Blue feels much more like SAB. I want to play certain holes and shots again. I want to hit approach shots to different pin placements.

That makes me feel like the Blue would be a better fit as a private course where members get to play the shots many, many times.

Hope this helps. I struggle to articulate my thought on this one.

[jonathan_becker]

Jimmy,

Based on the pictures we've seen so far, St Andrews Beach seems like it is going to be pretty cool, definitely a site I look forward to seeing.

Tim

Tim,

I found this quote from you on another SAB thread from 2004!  Interesting how things come around.

[Bart Bradley]

Bart,

I have played both St Andrews Beach and Streamsong Blue and prefer SAB, but I am hard pressed to articulate exactly why. The funny thing is that while playing Streamsong Blue recently, it did evoke thoughts of SAB. I can't think of another course TD has done that makes me feel that way.

My first visit to SAB came during the Renaissance Cup trip several years back when Cape Kidnappers and Barnbougle were the stars of the show and perhaps deservedly so. Both CK and Barnbougle are places you should visit at least once in your life. CK has that "8th wonder" aspect, a bit like the Old Head has but it is a far better golf course. Barnbougle goes the next step: the adventure through Melbourne and then on to Tasmania eventually making it to Bridport is also one of those "once in a lifetime" experiences. Then, the golf course, though less dramatic than CK, is really better with far more interesting shots,

Still, SAB emerged as my favorite. No drama, just a very natural environment and more holes and golf shots I would enjoy playing over and over again.

That brings me to one conclusion about Streamsong Blue. I think there is a difference between the golf course and the venue (a resort open to the public). The Blue has that "shots you want to play over and over again" quality. That I love. However,  I can't help but wonder if that quality aligns with the concept of a resort.

Pebble Beach feels like a resort. Every golfer should play it at least once and, fortunately, I got to do so 5-6 times 20-30 years ago. But, as great as it is I have no burning desire to play it again, certainly nothing like I feel for SAB. I miss SAB but really have no passion for Pebble.

The Blue feels much more like SAB. I want to play certain holes and shots again. I want to hit approach shots to different pin placements.

That makes me feel like the Blue would be a better fit as a private course where members get to play the shots many, many times.

Hope this helps. I struggle to articulate my thought on this one.

Tim:

Thanks for your thoughts.  I think the ground movement at St. Andrews Beach is substantially more interesting and likewise more challenging.  The 18th at Streamsong Blue has some raucous land movement but overall the property is less severe/exciting.  I prefer St. Andrews Beach as well.

Others?

Bart

[Jim Nugent]

Aussies/anyone who has played the top Australian courses: where do you rank SAB, on Australian and/or world lists?  Could it be world top 100? 

[Mike_Clayton]

It's somewhere between 5 and 10 in Australia. For me closer to 5 than 10. There are 5 Australian courses - RM,KH,Barnbougle,RA and NSW- in the world top 100. I think it is the equal - at least - of two of those courses. Lost Farm is top 4 in Australia in IMO.

[Morgan Clawson]

What a great looking course!

I love how big and isolated and peaceful it looks. Is it somewhat like Ballyneal with smoother landforms?

Nice work on the photos.

[Matthew Mollica]

Perfectly described there Clayts.

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