Could next storm offer chance to restore original Timber Point?

[Frank Pont]

Now thats one Colt/Alison restoration project I want to be involved with!

http://golfcoursehistories.com/TimberSandy.html

[Mac Plumart]

Restore it now!!

The area needs more public golf, doesn't it?  Now add in good public golf.

Am I off base?

[Mike Sweeney]

Am I off base?

http://www.longislandpress.com/2013/02/20/bellone-gives-suffolk-state-of-the-county-address/

[Frank Pont]

Restore it now!!

The area needs more public golf, doesn't it?  Now add in good public golf.

Am I off base?

Mac,

I keep being amazed at the restoration costs being quoted for US courses. They are so much higher than anything I see in my European practice. It must mean someone is making a lot of money on your side of the pond.... In any case I would love to seriously pitch seriously restoring Timber P to the authorities, maybe if it can be done for less costs and they are told the significance of the course and its designers they would consider....

[Frank Pont]

Just saw TD's post on the other TP discussion, interesting to see he has the same strong feelings about it.

[Alex Lagowitz]

in the other thread, Tom Doak said he would do the restoration and waive the design fee
wonder if that ever would happen

[Tom_Doak]

Funny, I was just talking about that with Mike Keiser at dinner.

I don't know the politics of Suffolk County at all.  Somebody who came on the golf.com live chat the other day said that he knew a lot of people at the county, and if they could get the deal together, would I donate my services?  But I don't know what it would take to get the deal together.

Frank, you are right about the costs of restoration work, they are staggeringly high sometimes.  Anything that has to do with a government project has all sorts of bidding regulations that drive up the price.

[Mark Bourgeois]

The restoration might not require 18 new holes. A number of greens and to a lesser extent holes overlay the old holes -- look here: http://golfcoursehistories.com/Timber.html

How much would that fact mitigate costs?

[Frank Pont]

Funny, I was just talking about that with Mike Keiser at dinner.

I don't know the politics of Suffolk County at all.  Somebody who came on the golf.com live chat the other day said that he knew a lot of people at the county, and if they could get the deal together, would I donate my services?  But I don't know what it would take to get the deal together.

Frank, you are right about the costs of restoration work, they are staggeringly high sometimes.  Anything that has to do with a government project has all sorts of bidding regulations that drive up the price.

Tom, I would be very happy to work pro bono for such an important project. I refuse to believe the we could not restore the course for under 1.5 million.  If we can keep construction costs low and maybe create a separate non profit  foundation that would run the golf course for the county than we would have the elements in place to both do a great restoration and keep an affordable venue for local golfers.

Would someone like Mike Keiser be interested in being involved in such a foundation?

[Chuck Glowacki]

Frank:  I do not know if I stepped out of bounds, but I just e-mailed the
Suffolk County Comptroller regarding your offer.

[Frank Pont]

Frank:  I do not know if I stepped out of bounds, but I just e-mailed the
Suffolk County Comptroller regarding your offer.

Chuck, well done, I just checked and I even have enough frequent flyer miles from my I banking days that I could fly to NY some 15 times so even that should be covered 

[Brad Klein]

I just happened to walk TimberPoint last Wednesday in a cold rainstorm -- first time I had ever seen it. The coastal holes -- 4-7, are amazing, esp. the par-3 Gibraltar, No. 5. But goodness, they are totally covered with silt, and the water level on Great South Bay is right there -- nothing like a bluff as you find at Bandon Dunes. it would be terribly risky to do any serious work there w/o raising the fairways about five feet. The nine inland holds might be okay, but the cubic yardage of sand required to raise most of the 18-holes by 3-4-5 feet is pretty expensive. And there are all sorts of regulatory issues involving wetlands and marsh areas along some of those holes as well.

[jeffwarne]

Restore it now!!

The area needs more public golf, doesn't it?  Now add in good public golf.

Am I off base?

Honestly Mac,
Timber Point IS a good golf course.
If they took the time, money, hype , and hoopla  ::)to make it great,
i would no doubt join the ranks of overly expensive courses that seem to be the result of every new project/restoration.
It serves its market well.

[jeffwarne]

Frank:  I do not know if I stepped out of bounds, but I just e-mailed the
Suffolk County Comptroller regarding your offer.

Chuck,
They can't even get their roads plowed.
Your email reply might come from the Carribean.

[Keith OHalloran]

I think the fact that Suffolk County is running on a deficit, forced non union workers to accept lag pay, and had large layoffs would indicate that they are not going to put any money into a golf course restoration. It would seem that the best way to get this done would be to convince the county to lease the course to someone who would do the work.
That being said, if you believe the following article, the course will be under water soon anyway.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/how-climate-change-could-threaten-transform-li-1.4699978

[Ronald Montesano]

Well, that was a letdown...any Long Island Newsday subscribers out there with full-text access?

[Keith OHalloran]

Ron, when I click the link it gives me the full story. I guess they block it when non subscribers click it. Sorry.

[Chuck Glowacki]

Jeff:  Brookhaven town supervisor was in the islands, Suffolk county runs timer point, I believe Timber Point is in
Islip town.  My son-in-laws boss is running for highway deparment super in brookhaven town, I have asked him
on more than one occassion if he really wanted the job.

[Chuck Glowacki]

Brad:  My neighbor works for the suffolk county parks department at indian island gc.  he showed me pictures
of the holes you mentioned at timber point.  what a mess!  he spent 3 days there clearing silt that came in from the bay.
indian island suffered damage to the 5th green, silt covered about 1/2 of the green.  Also, 6th and 10th
fairways were underwater.

[Frank Pont]

I think the fact that Suffolk County is running on a deficit, forced non union workers to accept lag pay, and had large layoffs would indicate that they are not going to put any money into a golf course restoration. It would seem that the best way to get this done would be to convince the county to lease the course to someone who would do the work.
That being said, if you believe the following article, the course will be under water soon anyway.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/how-climate-change-could-threaten-transform-li-1.4699978

Keith,

How about this deal, we bring together a group of TP/Colt/Alison enthousiasts. Say TD, myself, and any other architect or shaper that is interested to contribute. All architects and any shaper who works on the project does so pro bono (maybe we make revolving teams). It should mimic the way that open source software gets made.

On the economic side a foundation is set up that will lease the property from the county and does the whole restoration. Maybe someone like Mike Keiser is willing do lead that part of the effort. After that we do a crowd funding effort to raise the required money (maybe giving all subscribers a membership for life?).

Given that there seem to be original as built drawings in NY archives we could potentially do a "Bayonne" on the areas that are too low lying.

It no doubt has a lot of hurdles, but it doesn't sound impossible....... TP is important enough to try though

[Chuck Glowacki]

I received a reply to my e-mail.  Comptroller Sawicki has forwarded it to the Parks Commissioner.

[Michael George]

For those from Long Island, do you think the county would be willing  to sell the golf course?  If so, what do you think the cost would be?

[Chuck Glowacki]

Michael:  Don't know if the county would sell, but my guess would be yes.  If you are
interested in buying a golf course on Long Island, Long Island National in Riverhead is
for sale, also heard a rumor that Baiting Hollow Club in Baiting Hollow was also for sale.

[Dean DiBerardino]

In the new thread regarding the Discovery Land project in East Quogue, Tom D made the following comment about the possibility of restoring Timber Point….

I have no reason to believe they will ever do it.  For one, the town apparently prefers 27 holes of lower-cost golf to 18 holes of higher green fees.  For another, one of the old fairways is probably going to be deemed a wetland now, so the routing is compromised.  You could put back a lot of pieces, but I don't think the original course will be restored.

Check out the 1947 aerial below with current Suffolk County GIS info overlaid marking the current Freshwater Wetlands. It seems like there were many more acres of wetlands in the 18-hole layout than the current 27-holes of golf on the property. While it is true that some of the original fairway areas are now wetlands, it seems that a much greater amount of current fairways were former wetlands (that could be reclaimed if the course were restored to the original 18-hole layout).

If the course were restored to 18 holes along with the wetlands, wouldn’t this be considered a benefit environmentally?


1947 aerial with current freshwater wetlands....


1954 aerial...


Current aerial...

[Peter Gannon]

Serendipity Brad!  My four year old daughter and I walked out and up the Gibralter on Wednesday. 


https://app.photobucket.com/u/petertgannon/p/ab7dbe3a-a07a-40b1-bb45-d3673137f6f6


https://s.disco.ac/ddbimqchhrvp


Is there potential for The National Links Trust to expand to Suffolk Co?  Could be a great, cool model of local amenity, international reknown, goodwill, and we may have a good 60-100yr run before the Atlantic takes it.