[Dan Kelly]

... continues to bedevil the greatest players on Earth.

Kuchar, leading the tournament, and Mickelson, charging at 3-under through 9, have both double-bogeyed the hole today.

[Pete Lavallee]

Dan, 

The consensus of opinion is that the hole is much tougher now because the countours were changed 3 years ago. Supposedly the banks were shaved and now most Pros agree that to layup is foolhardy. We all seem to think that the play of the hole has been changed by the fact that everyone in the Tournament has the capability of hitting the green with their tee shot. Fact is that they now think that just to make par one must fire at the flag; they claim it is too difficult to hold a full edge shot to the green. Even Freddie seems to think that the green should be softened!

[Connor Dougherty]

They mentioned an interesting stat today: 70% of those who drove the green got birdies last year, while only 30% of those who laid up got birdies.

I wonder what the scores were of the other 30% who went for it.

[John McCarthy]

Seems like dumping it into the front Bunker was the smart play today. 

[jeffwarne]

They mentioned an interesting stat today: 70% of those who drove the green got birdies last year, while only 30% of those who laid up got birdies.

I wonder what the scores were of the other 30% who went for it.

Conner,
70 % who DROVE the green made birdies? or 70% who WENT for it made birdies?
Two different things

[Wade Whitehead]

Connor:

The question isn't how often birdie is made.  The question is how often double bogey comes into play.

WW

[Brett Hochstein]

They mentioned an interesting stat today: 70% of those who drove the green got birdies last year, while only 30% of those who laid up got birdies.

I wonder what the scores were of the other 30% who went for it.

Conner,
70 % who DROVE the green made birdies? or 70% who WENT for it made birdies?
Two different things

I saw this yesterday too and was surprised.  The overwhelming play favored going for it.  You have to give consideration to both the pros distance and accuracy though.  Also how easy a greenside sand save is for them.  I wonder how this stat would look for amateurs who hit it 260-290 on average.

[BHoover]

Looks like some pros are struggling on this hole this week. Several of them actually made double bogey.  Oh my god!  The green must be unfair!  Time to call for the hole to be changed. How dare the best players in the world be challenged by a short par 4!
 

[Rick Shefchik]

Further proof that if all greens were the approximate size and firmness of the hood of a '49 Buick, par would be a wonderful score on the PGA Tour.

[BHoover]

Further proof that if all greens were the approximate size and firmness of the hood of a '49 Buick, par would be a wonderful score on the PGA Tour.

But don't you know that it's just not "fair" for PGA Tour players to be forced to play for par.

[David Panzarasa]

I played Riviera not long ago...and belong to one of the clubs nearby (wilshire)

Everything about Riviera is beyond interesting to me. In that, coming from a smaller/tighter course with smaller greens, Riviera seems massive when playing it (for me at least, and much more so then TPC Sawgrass where I have been playing a good deal the past year or two).

The course doesnt "seem" hard, fairways are ample for sure, greens seem large to me (personally again), and listening to the golf channel, since the last major was held there, only 40% of the greens are hit, and the average putting distance from approach shots is 40% as well. Which is the mind-blowing to me. It ranks in the top 2-3 in the tour as hardest with those two stats

I played the 10th about 4 times in the last 3 months. And while I could never reach the green on a drive, for me it's just easier (because I CANT go for it). If you lay up (which I must no matter what), its a simple pitch.

I think what baffles or "plays with the pro's heads" is it brings in so many options..and they might over think it. They are pinpoint with their irons, and fairway woods/hybrids, and seems like the easy choice, but its hard to put the 3 wood or Driver down when you know you can reach it.  Hitting that long (300yards) and being 10 yards off can lead to hell for them.

This hole is amazing.....for the long hitter or Pro. Long hitter being someone that can hit 290+ (which is easy for them). I think this hole is not as hard for people that are not as long. You dont have many options at all, as you cant reach the green.

it's simply brilliant.

Compared to the 17th at Sawgrass (I know, not the same type of hole at all), but, for the Pro and the average golfer, basically you are hitting a wedge, the only difference for the pro's are they have thousands of people watching in person, and mega dollars on the line. But its not different in terms of "how to play" for the Pro and Average golfer.

This is long-winded, but I think mentally for the Pro's, its just hard not to go for the green off the tee. Almost like in baseball, when its a 3-0 pitch count, suppose to not swing on the next pitch, but its just there for you to hit it. All sports have something like that, where the proper play is there, but it's too tempting and from the tee looks like a nice opening. They over think it

2012 Riviera, playoff with Mickelson, Haas, and Bradley, all went for it. EVEN the third player off the tee, knowing the other two were in shit position and a par would win it probably. I believe Haas was third up, and pulled out driver when he didnt need too, just hit an amazing putt (over 40 feet like above noted). The SMART play was lay up, little pitch and walk off with the win.

It's a mental hole. I firmly believe that. Nothing more. Which is brilliant.

[Jim Nugent]

David Panzarasa, what you are saying seems the opposite of what the pros are saying.  From Pete's post, they think laying up is foolish, because it's too hard even for them to hold the green.  Perhaps the conditions are harder now than when you played? 

If the pros are right, and there's really only one play off the tee now, is the hole still one of the greats?  I know I prefer what I used to see (on TV) at the 10th at the Belfry, and (from the gallery) the old 7th at Olympic Lake. 

One thing that interests me about Riviera is that often the winners have hit 50% of all fairways, or less.  e.g. the second round leader only hit 35% of fairways.  Yet he hit 89% of all greens.  Is accuracy off the tee not very important there?  Or can you miss fairways, so long as you miss in the right places? 

[Thomas Dai]

David,

Thanks for starting this thread.I've watched the Pros on TV try to score well on this hole - it's been, um, interesting.

One question though, is the hole 'tricked-up' at all for the Pros (yardage, tee-box angles, etc, etc) or does it play pretty much the same for them as it does for the members?

Generally speaking, I reckon holes like this, shortish on the card but designed with cunning and subtlety, are terrific so, to all architects, designers, owners, constructors out there, please can we have some more holes of this general type!

All the best

[Wade Whitehead]

Imagine how hard the hole would be if PGA Tour bunkers were actually hazards!

WW

[Connor Dougherty]

They mentioned an interesting stat today: 70% of those who drove the green got birdies last year, while only 30% of those who laid up got birdies.

I wonder what the scores were of the other 30% who went for it.

Conner,
70 % who DROVE the green made birdies? or 70% who WENT for it made birdies?
Two different things

I recall them saying went for it but I could be wrong. I mentioned the other 30% because I would assume their scores are very high.

[Joe_Tucholski]

I feel like the grumblings are based on the ego of the professional.  They can't handle the fact that they aren't making 3 on a 300ish yard hole.

I really like the shotlink image posted on Geoff Shakelfords site:


Despite what Phil and others are saying more birdies were made on Friday by those who laid up.

I will say it looks like the scoring average is higher than it has been in the past but on Thursday only 5 holes played easier in relation to par (it had a 4.06 scoring average on the day).  Friday it was playing tough with 10 holes playing easier in relation to par (it averaged 4.13).  Today it played under par at an average 3.92 and 4 holes were easier in relation to par (each day the par 5's have played under par).

[Matthew Rose]

According to that, at least three people drove it into the greenside bunker and made bogey.

[Jeff Shelman]

I think a perfect day would be to sit by the 10th green for an entire afternoon, drink 100 beers and watch pros be completely fooled by the hole.

[Dieter Jones]

EGO!! The only thing the pros would hate more than laying up off the tee on a 300 yard hole would be aiming away from the pin on a 70-90 yard approach. To me it's the second shot where there ego really gets in the way. Sure there is some severe ring puckering required to go for a back right pin from a layup but they also had the option of laying back in the left centre of the green ( good enough spot to win a play off last year after all). Anything in the front bunker is impossible to hold the green with and long left looked just as difficult.

In fairness it must be difficult to play almost the entire year on bomb and gouge courses and then suddenly have to think about shot making and stategy.

Suck it up princesses.
 

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()