[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike,

I thought that the opening date for the hotel was Oct/Nov 2013 ?

Now, with a Jan/Feb 2014 opening date, will that be deferred until the last quarter of 2014 ?

And, would that enable them to work out the snafoos that have existed since opening ?

It would seem that by now, 8 months after opening, that they would have figured out how to address the glitches

The golf courses are terrific, but if they don't work out the service issues, word of mouth will hurt them, regardless of their advertising budget.

[Ron Csigo]

Congrats to the GCA Hot Dog brigade. Based on a conversation I had yesterday with the general manager at Streamsong, I learned that .....

The $12 hot dog is off the menu.  It's been replaced by a Chicago hot dog priced at $8. 

Our next mission: Get Streamsong to serve the hot dog without ketchup.

I was out at Streamsong this past weekend and only had time to play one round.  I choose the Blue Course because it seemed more forgiving for a couple of high handicap players that were in my group.  All around, it was a great experience and I'm excited to go back and stay at the resort and enjoy both courses.

For the record, the Chicago hot dog with jalapeno slaw was amazing.

[Bryan Izatt]

Mike,

What does "relatively crowded" mean - twice as many as Bella Colina? Or more than twice?

I'm surprised that they haven't worked out the clubhouse/driving range/1st tee logistics.  Is it possible that they don't realize that it's an issue, at least for some clients?  On my second visit, I walked my clubs out through the tunnel and carried them to the car on my way out - didn't really feel the need for the shuttle services.  I suppose there are plenty of people who want to be pampered as part of a relatively expensive experience.

How was playing in the afternoon with temps above 90 and humidity around 50-60%.  I assume you didn't walk.  I hope the water coolers were well stocked and easier to find than initially.

How would you compare the course conditions to those of last winter?  

[Ben Kodadek]

Brian,

I played the Red on Sunday AM.  The course conditions were very good for this time of year in Florida.  We walked and carried and it was brutally hot.   

[Ben Kodadek]

And to think, only a week ago Mac was wondering aloud what sort of impact Golf Club Atlas could have on the business!

With the concept of being constructive, I add the following after today's round on The Blue:
I played the Red on Sunday and the Blue a week ago. Comments below pertain to the Red.

1. The greens were in perfect shape as was the course. They have had a few cave ins in sandy areas after some strong summer rains but I would not have noticed if they were not pointed out to me where they were rebuilt.
[color=yellow]The condition of the greens on the Red were excellent.   Fast and firm.  I also noticed a number of washouts, particularly on the left side of 7.  While they have added some railroad tie extensions in the transition areas (stairs to #7, stairs on #15) I'd love to see more.  There's a lot of "beach" walking getting from tee box to fairway.  [/color]

2. The $8.00 hot dogs are still on the menu, and the $12 dogs are nowhere to be found.  
The food has increased in quality.  I've tried 8-10 items on the menu and they are all excellent.

3. The bag/range/checkin/checkout logistics are still a "work in process". Moving forward, I will personally go straight to the practice range and avoid checking in until after the range. Somebody at Streamsong really needs to focus on this as it has been three trips of awkward logistics around the clubhouse. Again, trying to be constructive, but when the wife is texting you back at Disney and your partners bag is lost for 20 minutes after the round, it leaves a bad taste. I know I am not alone in this view as many friends here and elsewhere have expressed similar views.
It's still a total mess.  If you hadn't been there before, you'd have no idea what the procedure is.   I walk my bag through the clubhouse and leave it on the practice green.  

4. We were on 18 when the thunderstorms hit, but they really need to build a few shelters out on the courses, for safety imo.
I believe the policy they use for heavy storms is to get people OFF the course entirely by sending out carts for walkers.  

5. Caddy rates - I am a former caddy, so I say this with respect, can we simply publish simple caddy rates? I know they are here (http://www.streamsongresort.com/best-florida-golf/caddie-services), but a simple rate card on the first tee would solve having to find the caddie master after a round. As there are a variety of caddy options (carrying, forcaddie, walker was in our group....), a rate card would clarify things.
Agreed.  I can't help but think a few of these guys have been stiffed pretty good by a twosome in a cart.  Additionally, the resort should pair up twosomes or make it clear that they won't be playing through every foursome on the course.

6. Pin Sheets - Please provide the caddies with a pin sheet for the day. If there is an incentive to use a caddy, it would be this local knowledge. The greens on The Blue are challenging and while my game calls for center of the green 90% of the time, it would be nice to know the pin position regardless.
[color=yellow]Agree 100%.  Especially after multiple plays it would be nice to know where the hole location is.  There's absolutely no reason not to have one a resort of this caliber.  1 on Red is a perfect example.  No idea where that hole is from the fairway and even more so for the blind approach on #13.
[/color]
7. Hotel - Looks like a bigger version of the clubhouse from the course. It blends in nicely and we were told the hotel opens January 17th.
I still have no idea who would bring their spouse (if not a golfer) out to this resort?  

8. Crowds and Pace of Play - No issues on pace of play and it was relatively crowded in comparison to Bella Colina which had maybe 20 people on the course yesterday. I remained concerned about "The Vibe" of the place when the hotel opens.

The course played fairly firm, the greens were perfect, just need to work on the clubhouse logistics. It will be harder when there are bags going to and from the hotel, so I hope they listen.

[Steve Kline]

Your yellow type is impossible to read.

[Joe Bausch]

And to think, only a week ago Mac was wondering aloud what sort of impact Golf Club Atlas could have on the business!

With the concept of being constructive, I add the following after today's round on The Blue:
I played the Red on Sunday and the Blue a week ago. Comments below pertain to the Red.

1. The greens were in perfect shape as was the course. They have had a few cave ins in sandy areas after some strong summer rains but I would not have noticed if they were not pointed out to me where they were rebuilt.
The condition of the greens on the Red were excellent.   Fast and firm.  I also noticed a number of washouts, particularly on the left side of 7.  While they have added some railroad tie extensions in the transition areas (stairs to #7, stairs on #15) I'd love to see more.  There's a lot of "beach" walking getting from tee box to fairway.  

2. The $8.00 hot dogs are still on the menu, and the $12 dogs are nowhere to be found.  
The food has increased in quality.  I've tried 8-10 items on the menu and they are all excellent.

3. The bag/range/checkin/checkout logistics are still a "work in process". Moving forward, I will personally go straight to the practice range and avoid checking in until after the range. Somebody at Streamsong really needs to focus on this as it has been three trips of awkward logistics around the clubhouse. Again, trying to be constructive, but when the wife is texting you back at Disney and your partners bag is lost for 20 minutes after the round, it leaves a bad taste. I know I am not alone in this view as many friends here and elsewhere have expressed similar views.
It's still a total mess.  If you hadn't been there before, you'd have no idea what the procedure is.   I walk my bag through the clubhouse and leave it on the practice green.  

4. We were on 18 when the thunderstorms hit, but they really need to build a few shelters out on the courses, for safety imo.
I believe the policy they use for heavy storms is to get people OFF the course entirely by sending out carts for walkers.  

5. Caddy rates - I am a former caddy, so I say this with respect, can we simply publish simple caddy rates? I know they are here (http://www.streamsongresort.com/best-florida-golf/caddie-services), but a simple rate card on the first tee would solve having to find the caddie master after a round. As there are a variety of caddy options (carrying, forcaddie, walker was in our group....), a rate card would clarify things.
Agreed.  I can't help but think a few of these guys have been stiffed pretty good by a twosome in a cart.  Additionally, the resort should pair up twosomes or make it clear that they won't be playing through every foursome on the course.

6. Pin Sheets - Please provide the caddies with a pin sheet for the day. If there is an incentive to use a caddy, it would be this local knowledge. The greens on The Blue are challenging and while my game calls for center of the green 90% of the time, it would be nice to know the pin position regardless.
Agree 100%.  Especially after multiple plays it would be nice to know where the hole location is.  There's absolutely no reason not to have one a resort of this caliber.  1 on Red is a perfect example.  No idea where that hole is from the fairway and even more so for the blind approach on #13.

7. Hotel - Looks like a bigger version of the clubhouse from the course. It blends in nicely and we were told the hotel opens January 17th.
I still have no idea who would bring their spouse (if not a golfer) out to this resort?  

8. Crowds and Pace of Play - No issues on pace of play and it was relatively crowded in comparison to Bella Colina which had maybe 20 people on the course yesterday. I remained concerned about "The Vibe" of the place when the hotel opens.

The course played fairly firm, the greens were perfect, just need to work on the clubhouse logistics. It will be harder when there are bags going to and from the hotel, so I hope they listen.

[Ben Kodadek]

Thanks Joe!  You beat me to the modification.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Guys stop with all the colors, the yellow is impossible for a color challenged person to read.

Then there's the issue of Bella Colina and Streamsong, how can you compare the two? My guess is Doak or C and C leaves BC in the dust. If it was a fight it would have to be stopped. BC is , by far, the worst course I have played in the past 5 years. And that includes a Philly muni.

[Mike Sweeney]

Then there's the issue of Bella Colina and Streamsong, how can you compare the two? My guess is Doak or C and C leaves BC in the dust. If it was a fight it would have to be stopped. BC is , by far, the worst course I have played in the past 5 years. And that includes a Philly muni.

Ed,

BC right now is $53 versus $150 for Streamsong, cart included. BC can't be walked (I walk at Yale...) and Streamsong is very tough to walk at this time of year. We traded a cart between 3 of us, walking and riding at Streamsong.

I get your distaste for some of the holes at BC, and as a guy who does not love "cartball", I liked many of the holes and heroic shots at Bella Collina. The greens are very fun, and less severe than Streamsong Blue (which is my preferred course at Streamsong). With the right to change my vote based on how I play, the 10 Rounds test is:

5 on The Blue

3 on The Red

2 on BC

and that does not include any price preferences/differences...

[Ed Brzezowski]

Mike,

You are a better man than me. I guess part of my problem with BC was the management. One of our guys let it slip that I rate, local golf assn not for a publication, courses. The manager sat down an asked me what it was like to have just played one of the countries top ten courses. Having just watched 14 tee shots head into the snake pit on 18 I found the managers stance laughable. I had also played three of the top ten weeks before, so that colored my thinking.

I just recall two holes that needed major work. Nine had a slit fence to catch balls that were hit with a slight draw , I found that really odd since our fader of the ball ended up in the fence too.  18 is just a poor hole, 20 guys hit it exactly where the guide told you too. We only found 6 of the 20, 4 in the fairway and 2 in the pit. I was the worst player as an 8. 14 balls were gone forever since we were cautioned that a guy had been bitten and died a few days before we played BC. I like an ocassional blind shot but at least give me the information so I can have a second shot and not have to worry about snake bites. I hate snakes.

ed

[Patrick_Mucci]

Brian,

I played the Red on Sunday AM.  The course conditions were very good for this time of year in Florida.  We walked and carried and it was brutally hot. 

Ben,

Was there any breeze during your round ? 

[Greg Tallman]

Mike,

You are a better man than me. I guess part of my problem with BC was the management. One of our guys let it slip that I rate, local golf assn not for a publication, courses. The manager sat down an asked me what it was like to have just played one of the countries top ten courses. Having just watched 14 tee shots head into the snake pit on 18 I found the managers stance laughable. I had also played three of the top ten weeks before, so that colored my thinking.

I just recall two holes that needed major work. Nine had a slit fence to catch balls that were hit with a slight draw , I found that really odd since our fader of the ball ended up in the fence too.  18 is just a poor hole, 20 guys hit it exactly where the guide told you too. We only found 6 of the 20, 4 in the fairway and 2 in the pit. I was the worst player as an 8. 14 balls were gone forever since we were cautioned that a guy had been bitten and died a few days before we played BC. I like an ocassional blind shot but at least give me the information so I can have a second shot and not have to worry about snake bites. I hate snakes.

ed

Who in the hell asks such a thing? I mean other than timeshare salesmen.

[Ed Brzezowski]

A fairly young F and B manager who never, by his own admission, touched a golf club. I just found the entire place odd. But at 60 bucks i guess it's a great deal. Florida heat and snakes, woo hoo lets go!!

[Ben Kodadek]

Brian,

I played the Red on Sunday AM.  The course conditions were very good for this time of year in Florida.  We walked and carried and it was brutally hot. 

Ben,

Was there any breeze during your round ? 

Not a lick. 

[Pete Buczkowski]

And to think, only a week ago Mac was wondering aloud what sort of impact Golf Club Atlas could have on the business!

With the concept of being constructive, I add the following after today's round on The Blue:

1. The greens were in perfect shape as was the course. They have had a few cave ins in sandy areas after some strong summer rains but I would not have noticed if they were not pointed out to me where they were rebuilt.

2. The $8.00 hot dogs are still on the menu, and the $12 dogs are nowhere to be found.  

3. The bag/range/checkin/checkout logistics are still a "work in process". Moving forward, I will personally go straight to the practice range and avoid checking in until after the range. Somebody at Streamsong really needs to focus on this as it has been three trips of awkward logistics around the clubhouse. Again, trying to be constructive, but when the wife is texting you back at Disney and your partners bag is lost for 20 minutes after the round, it leaves a bad taste. I know I am not alone in this view as many friends here and elsewhere have expressed similar views.

4. We were on 18 when the thunderstorms hit, but they really need to build a few shelters out on the courses, for safety imo.

5. Caddy rates - I am a former caddy, so I say this with respect, can we simply publish simple caddy rates? I know they are here (http://www.streamsongresort.com/best-florida-golf/caddie-services), but a simple rate card on the first tee would solve having to find the caddie master after a round. As there are a variety of caddy options (carrying, forcaddie, walker was in our group....), a rate card would clarify things.

6. Pin Sheets - Please provide the caddies with a pin sheet for the day. If there is an incentive to use a caddy, it would be this local knowledge. The greens on The Blue are challenging and while my game calls for center of the green 90% of the time, it would be nice to know the pin position regardless.

7. Hotel - Looks like a bigger version of the clubhouse from the course. It blends in nicely and we were told the hotel opens January 17th.

8. Crowds and Pace of Play - No issues on pace of play and it was relatively crowded in comparison to Bella Colina which had maybe 20 people on the course yesterday. I remained concerned about "The Vibe" of the place when the hotel opens.

The course played fairly firm, the greens were perfect, just need to work on the clubhouse logistics. It will be harder when there are bags going to and from the hotel, so I hope they listen.

As a local, I am a huge fan of the place, having made ~8 visits since opening.  That said, #5 and 6 will probably keep me away from being a frequent guest in the future.  The mandatory forecaddie when taking a cart is very tough on the local.  While I prefer to carry, my playing partners rarely want to do it.  The mild or non-existent winds combined with very humd conditions make walking unpleasant in the summer.  I won't go through the details but the forecaddie experience there leaves a lot to be desired.

I also don't understand the strong stance against pin sheets.  Not to pipe up Disney too much, but we certainly try to cater to different segments of Guests.  Feedback is a gift, and while we might have policies for specific reasons, we always evaluate them based on feedback to see if we can make a Guest friendly change that doesn't deter from the experience or our core ideals.  Not that we get it perfect by any means, but there is at least a process for evaulating Guest concerns.

I agree with the desire to keep the flags simple and uncluttered.  Probably the main reason to not have pin sheets is to ensure flexibility on course setup and not be "locked" into only 8 different sets of hole locations.  The explanation is that caddies are there to give yardages and can laser the distances.  That's great (when the caddie does it), but there still should be a guide for walkers without caddies.  On most holes a repeat Guest can look ahead or see the location, but there are still a number of holes that you cannot (especially from the tee).   (Minor note: are range finders really within the spirit of the game?)  One walker-friendly solution would be to have sheets which say how many paces the hole locations are from the front and right edges.  You could only provide these to walkers if you want to preserve the caddy experience, or write it on a board and give the player an option to write it down (I believe that is the practice at the Old Course and most tournaments).  But the strict "we will never ..." statement just strikes me as odd.

[Bill_McBride]

 On greens the size of both courses, you really do need a daily pin sheet, one of those with 18 circles that note depth and distance to the closer edge.  You could have a stack of these by each first tee along with scorecards, tees, divot tools etc.   Pete is right, these are GUEST service issues that need to be addressed.  

[Bill Brightly]

Having pin sheets is a no brainer. But the forecaddy issue is a little trickier. If a course intends to have a viable caddy program, there has to be work for the caddies. So if I choose to ride I may not like having to incur the added expense of a forecaddy, but I know that is part of the deal when I decide to play Streamsong.

It is not an inexpensive place to play golf, but I think the courses are good enough to make it worth the expense. I guess the marketplace will tell the story in the long run. If their tee sheets are open due to lack of play, the resort will have to adjust. If the sheets are full and the caddies have work, the resort can operate like most private clubs which have the same rules.

The resort absolutely should hand out cards telling guests what the range of payment should be for caddies/forecaddies, especially since many of the guests may not belong to clubs with similar caddy programs.

Personally, I liked that Streamsong allows their caddies to carry doubles versus Bandon which normally sends out single caddies. I'm not cheap, but feeling obligated to pay an extra $20 or so because the guy was single irks me. (And I also like a little space. The single is ALWAYS with you, where with double caddying there are moments of solitude!)

[Jerry Kluger]

First, I have no problem with lasers as they certainly speed up play and there are very few courses left where they are prohibited from use by players or caddies.  I don't know what the spirit of the game has to do with it as marking sprinkler heads and giving hole locations in any form eliminates guess work.

My experience at Streamsong with a caddie was very positive with respect to his abilities but not with the cost.  I took a cart because I wanted to play 36 a day and at my age walking 36 could really be a challenge.  The problem is that if the other guys are carrying their bags I am the only one paying the caddie unless they decide to give him something for his help.  That makes me feel that a usual fee with tip is simply not enough so I wind up having to give him much more than I normally would.  So if they are going to require caddies then they need to make them mandatory for all players even if they are carrying their own bags because they are invariably asking the caddie for information or advice and they should share in the cost of that service.

[Bill Brightly]

Jerry,

SS could solve that very simply: Make a forecaddy mandatory with all groups whether golfers ride, pull or carry their own.

[Matthew Sander]

My experience at Streamsong with a caddie was very positive with respect to his abilities but not with the cost.  I took a cart because I wanted to play 36 a day and at my age walking 36 could really be a challenge.  The problem is that if the other guys are carrying their bags I am the only one paying the caddie unless they decide to give him something for his help.  That makes me feel that a usual fee with tip is simply not enough so I wind up having to give him much more than I normally would.  So if they are going to require caddies then they need to make them mandatory for all players even if they are carrying their own bags because they are invariably asking the caddie for information or advice and they should share in the cost of that service.

Jerry,

That really isn't a reflection on Streamsong, is it? If the other players in a group want to benefit from a caddie, they need to pay for one. Sure they'll over hear some advice, but continually asking for information is taking advantage of the caddie.  Not really any different from other clubs that have optional caddie policies. That said, and I'm sure some of our caddie friends can confirm, the situation you describe surely takes place all the time at optional caddie clubs.

[Greg Tallman]

Jerry,

SS could solve that very simply: Make a forecaddy mandatory with all groups whether golfers ride, pull or carry their own.

 I don't there is a simple answer, We are dealing with human beings after all. Half will hate the extra expense, half will love the service and the other half will appreciate the thought but complain about the quality.  

[Jonathan Webb]

I think pin sheets are a must!

At the very least create 4 to 5 zones per green so the golfer knows which 'course/zone' they are playing that day.

Seems like a no brainer, to me, especially given the cost to play.

[Bill Brightly]

I think pin sheets are a must!

At the very least create 4 to 5 zones per green so the golfer knows which 'course/zone' they are playing that day.

Seems like a no brainer, to me, especially given the cost to play.

Superintendents have a schedule of the zone rotation they want followed. Creating a pin sheet is a piece of cake, it just requires the superintendent to communicate with the office staff.

[jeffwarne]

First, I have no problem with lasers as they certainly speed up play and there are very few courses left where they are prohibited from use by players or caddies.  I don't know what the spirit of the game has to do with it as marking sprinkler heads and giving hole locations in any form eliminates guess work.

My experience at Streamsong with a caddie was very positive with respect to his abilities but not with the cost.  I took a cart because I wanted to play 36 a day and at my age walking 36 could really be a challenge.  The problem is that if the other guys are carrying their bags I am the only one paying the caddie unless they decide to give him something for his help.  That makes me feel that a usual fee with tip is simply not enough so I wind up having to give him much more than I normally would.  So if they are going to require caddies then they need to make them mandatory for all players even if they are carrying their own bags because they are invariably asking the caddie for information or advice and they should share in the cost of that service.

Jerry,
Why force others to take a service they don't need or want, just because you played with players who were seeking advice from someone you employed and not willing to pay for it?
Agreed that they should pay for the service they are receiving, but your quibble with cost should be with them, not Streamsong.
Streamsong is quite expensive, and if they are willing to make caddies optional, and can operate successfully that way, driving the cost up further may be a dealbreaker for some, leading others to have the same quibble as you--cost

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