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Sven Nilsen

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Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #100 on: February 15, 2013, 01:17:51 AM »
Looks like a coronary. 

But a delicious coronary.
"As much as we have learned about the history of golf architecture in the last ten plus years, I'm convinced we have only scratched the surface."  A GCA Poster

"There's the golf hole; play it any way you please." Donald Ross

Jud_T

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Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #101 on: February 15, 2013, 08:14:40 AM »
Mike,

Everyone knows Gray's can't hold a candle to Papaya King on 86th... ;)
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Howard Riefs

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Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #102 on: February 15, 2013, 09:20:07 AM »


Be still my still beating heart.

Too bad the photo isn't a scratch-n-sniff to determine if those are the sinful duck fat fries.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

C. Squier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #103 on: February 15, 2013, 09:37:08 AM »
Is this thread serious?  I can't imagine someone Googling my name just to come across me complaining about a hot dog. 

I'm always amazed how a thread filled with people bragging about playing the world's greatest golf courses by the dozen (or 25) can sit right next to a thread so petty as this.

For the last few years we've read/hoped that Streamsong would be a bastion of hope for Florida golf and here we have people swearing off visiting b/c of the price of a hotdog.  I've now seen it all on this website.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #104 on: February 15, 2013, 11:53:19 AM »
Is this thread serious?  I can't imagine someone Googling my name just to come across me complaining about a hot dog.  

I'm always amazed how a thread filled with people bragging about playing the world's greatest golf courses by the dozen (or 25) can sit right next to a thread so petty as this.

For the last few years we've read/hoped that Streamsong would be a bastion of hope for Florida golf and here we have people swearing off visiting b/c of the price of a hotdog.  I've now seen it all on this website.

Serious? Did you read the opening post?   ::)  Actually, I don't believe anyone has yet answered the only semi-serious question: is 12 bucks the most you've ever paid for a dog on a golf course.  ;)

There are nearly 250 threads on this site in which Streamsong  has been mentioned, either directly or indirectly, and in those threads there have been many serious questions asked about much more important aspects of the courses, green fees, caddies fees, etc..
There were also serious articles from off this site, some even questioning the business savvy of plunking golf courses down in the semi-wastelands of central Florida.

The golf courses have been thriving, all the reviews peg them as first rate gems, and the tee sheet doesn't seem to have any holes in it. Streamsong has already knocked it out of the ballpark and Florida's reputation has improved, even Matt Ward thinks so.  ;D      

Anyone who is serious about playing top notch golf is not going to let the price of a hot dog keep them away.  
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 11:57:40 AM by Jim_Kennedy »
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #105 on: February 15, 2013, 02:39:40 PM »
I wonder if they are considering building a Yurt option. You could bring your own weiners and roast them on your campfire
"We finally beat Medicare. "

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #106 on: February 15, 2013, 04:08:30 PM »
Is this thread serious?  I can't imagine someone Googling my name just to come across me complaining about a hot dog.  

I'm always amazed how a thread filled with people bragging about playing the world's greatest golf courses by the dozen (or 25) can sit right next to a thread so petty as this.

For the last few years we've read/hoped that Streamsong would be a bastion of hope for Florida golf and here we have people swearing off visiting b/c of the price of a hotdog.  I've now seen it all on this website.

Serious? Did you read the opening post?   ::)  Actually, I don't believe anyone has yet answered the only semi-serious question: is 12 bucks the most you've ever paid for a dog on a golf course.  ;)

There are nearly 250 threads on this site in which Streamsong  has been mentioned, either directly or indirectly, and in those threads there have been many serious questions asked about much more important aspects of the courses, green fees, caddies fees, etc..
There were also serious articles from off this site, some even questioning the business savvy of plunking golf courses down in the semi-wastelands of central Florida.

The golf courses have been thriving, all the reviews peg them as first rate gems, and the tee sheet doesn't seem to have any holes in it. Streamsong has already knocked it out of the ballpark and Florida's reputation has improved, even Matt Ward thinks so.  ;D      

Anyone who is serious about playing top notch ::) ::) ;D golf is not going to let the price of a hot dog keep them away.  

The Hot dog is $12 at the local burger joint here in Sag Harbor.
amazingly, the hamburger is $11, of course there are many burger options and that's just the opening bid
and people wonder why caddie rates are high......
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Tim Pitner

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #107 on: February 15, 2013, 04:23:59 PM »
A shout out to Biker Jim's in Denver--they're "gourmet," they're delicious and they're far short of $12.

Eric Strulowitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #108 on: February 15, 2013, 04:42:14 PM »
Is this thread serious?  I can't imagine someone Googling my name just to come across me complaining about a hot dog.  

I'm always amazed how a thread filled with people bragging about playing the world's greatest golf courses by the dozen (or 25) can sit right next to a thread so petty as this.

For the last few years we've read/hoped that Streamsong would be a bastion of hope for Florida golf and here we have people swearing off visiting b/c of the price of a hotdog.  I've now seen it all on this website.

Serious? Did you read the opening post?   ::)  Actually, I don't believe anyone has yet answered the only semi-serious question: is 12 bucks the most you've ever paid for a dog on a golf course.  ;)

There are nearly 250 threads on this site in which Streamsong  has been mentioned, either directly or indirectly, and in those threads there have been many serious questions asked about much more important aspects of the courses, green fees, caddies fees, etc..
There were also serious articles from off this site, some even questioning the business savvy of plunking golf courses down in the semi-wastelands of central Florida.

The golf courses have been thriving, all the reviews peg them as first rate gems, and the tee sheet doesn't seem to have any holes in it. Streamsong has already knocked it out of the ballpark and Florida's reputation has improved, even Matt Ward thinks so.  ;D      

Anyone who is serious about playing top notch golf is not going to let the price of a hot dog keep them away.  

Not true.   With all due respect you are wrong.   They might not let the price of a hot dog keep them away for the first visit, but it may deter repeat visits.  Because we are not talking just about $12 here.  What about couples, or father son or whatever.  And most people will eat a helluva lot more than one hot dog.  So when it is all added up, you have a pretty hefty lunch bill, that one will not forget and maybe leave a bad taste in one's mouth.  

The second problem with these expensive add- ons, including food, is that the high cost is being used to pay for not only the golf , but lavish facilities.    Golf is silly in a way, because what suurrounds the  playing field is often more expensive than the playing field.  I have been in clubhouses over the  years, my jaw has dropped.  Who really wants all this?  How many clubs have closed because they could not service the debt on all this crap.  So, when we see ridiculous food prices, we are really helping to pay for a lot of non-golf related crap we don't care about.  My focus is the playing field, that is the only reason I come.  Not to stay in a fancy room, or drink vintage wines, and have folks pampering me at every turn.  I don't mind paying for the golf, but I do mind paying for all the extravegance that goes on around the golf course.  I contend that the average golfer that plays high end facilities does not does not want or demand luxury for this.  We do not demand pampering and fancy, most of us are quite happy with functional and comfortable and nice and clean, yet the industry thinks we need things at such a high level and we will always be willing to pay for it.  That is why resorts are closing, private clubs are being repossesed and shut down, because of debt service on non-golf related crap.  I know of more than one club that had great dining and adequate clubhouses, that just had to upgrade, the results were not good.  And if you do have the funds to upgrade, is now the time to do it?.  When times are so uncertain?  Any astute  business person would put this on the burner, because cash on hand is king now, and cash flow is the queen.

Any resort or club that makes the false assumption that the consumer does not weigh value does not know their customer.  To be so ignorant of economic reality is mind blowing.   When times were better, and we were all getting bonuses, and our jobs were never in danger, and our kids were guaranteed jobs when graduating, and health insurance was affordable, well we did not mind getting nickle and dimed to dealth.  I say the consumer does mind now, and will factor that to a point with initial visits, it will definately factor in with return visits, and recommendation to others about whether or not to visit.  If someone asked me what I thought about a given resort, would I not be honest in telling them about add-ons like food and forecaddies.  Forr many, where funds are limited, these add ons might be the kicker , where someone would go elsewhere, if not out of financial necessity, but maybe also out of principle, who actually enjoys knowing they are getting ripped off.

My best travel related memories of golf are the UK.   These folks got it right.   Yea, they have a few mega resorts, but not many.  I remember quaint B&B's and dormie houses and lodges all over England, Scotland, and Ireland, not fancy, but a warm shower and a comfortable bed. .  I remember the owners greeting me after a round of golf, asking me about my rounds, and offering me a refreshement or snack.    I remember sitting around at dinner, with golfers, talking about golf.  I remember lunches at these courses that were far superiior in portion and  and price to what 2 hot dogs, a salad, fries, and few drinks would cost at one in quesion.  I will never forget the lunch at Royal Cinque Ports, I ordered haddock, and what came out was bigger than the whole plate and the fries were stacked high and enough to share.  And being greeted by the members and being made to feel at home.  I will never forget the wondeful lunch buffet at Rye, and lunch at countless other famous venues, you got portions and a fair price, all most of us ask for is value for our buck.  We do not mind paying a premium, but not being out and out ripped off.  These are the kind of places one thinks about making a return trip to.  They are not memorable necessarily for their extravegance, but for the value and the true regard for making the customer feel welcome.  You don't feel like the staff is reading some script prepared by some goofball from some corporate office maybe even from another country, it is real and heartfelt.  That is what most golfesr want, at least I hope so.  There are some I guess that do have this need to be pampered and slobbered over, that is ok.  There are some I guess that will define value based on price, that is ok to.  But most golfers I know, don't know the difference between a $5 cigar and a $50 cigar, and could not tell the difference between decent wine and premium wine.  Most golfers  I know do not like having a caddy or forecaddy forced on them.  Sometimes, we just want to be left alone and figure out our own yardages, and breaks on putts, and whatever.    It is all getting out of hand , and this ends up putting  certian venues out out of reach for someone who is comfortable,  it becomes for the really comfortable or rich.  And even if you are really comfortable or rich, getting ripped off is still getting ripped off.  It puts a bad taste in your mouth.  More than ever, those of us who deal with the public understand how important it is to give the customer value and assure customer satisfaction, because we want repeat business and positive word of mouth.  So, in our dealings in the business world as consumers, we are more tuned in than ever to this, and we expect the same.  There are not that many people like this anymore, who will spend without regard for value, value does count, more than ever.   So, this talk about $12 hot dogs is important.   It is not really about the hot dog itself,  or about any specific resort really, it is about our game.  Resorts are closing, public and private clubs are closing.  Rounds are way down nationally, doubt this, look it up.  We are failing in drawing youth to our game.  Let's get the focus back to the playing field, this will make the sport more affordable, more accessible.  And we will not have to endure lunches that break the bank and make us shake our heads in disbelief as to what we just paid.  
« Last Edit: February 15, 2013, 05:27:18 PM by Eric Strulowitz »

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #109 on: February 15, 2013, 04:52:29 PM »
You guys who are sweating it can get an extra large cheese pizza at Hungry Howie's in Fort Meade for $11.20.  Might get a bit dicey when you're caught at the far end of the course in 100 degree heat the following day, but at least you'll have 80 cents left over to put towards some baby wipes and tighty whiteys at Wal Mart...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #110 on: February 15, 2013, 04:59:53 PM »
Eric, I really get and appreciate what you are saying.  The UK model of golf and our model are astonishingly far apart.   You have to put up with some aggravations in this country to play top notch golf courses, no doubt about.  My experiences at Rye and Royal Cinque Ports were memorable like yours. 

Sam Morrow

Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #111 on: February 15, 2013, 05:26:59 PM »
I got a hot dog, potato chips, and Coke at turn at Prairie Dunes and all that was only $9.

Mark Bourgeois

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Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #112 on: February 15, 2013, 05:45:09 PM »
Jim,

I've paid $16 but it was at a private club. I think the price reflects the wealth of members, a recent capital improvement program, and typical F&B economic issues. Watching moms swat away their kids from the snack shack at the pool is passable 19th hole entertainment.
Charlotte. Daniel. Olivia. Josephine. Ana. Dylan. Madeleine. Catherine. Chase. Jesse. James. Grace. Emilie. Jack. Noah. Caroline. Jessica. Benjamin. Avielle. Allison.

Cliff Hamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #113 on: February 15, 2013, 07:02:50 PM »
Might also add that the $175 green fee is a bit deceptive if you choose to ride.  Cart fee is $25.  You are required to take a mandatory forecaddy.  I never could figure out why.  The good news is the forecaddy is really a caddy and quite a good one at that.  But the charge is $80 (for 2), quite reasonable for a caddy and figure $20 or so for a tip.  So the final cost with cart is $250.  Not quite as reasonable for quality golf as it first appears.

Jim_Kennedy

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #114 on: February 15, 2013, 07:02:54 PM »
Mark,

$16.00 is highest so far. I wonder where the dividing line is between price and 'sorry sir, we do not serve hot dogs here'?

$17.00?  ;D  
"I never beat a well man in my life" - Harry Vardon

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #115 on: February 15, 2013, 07:38:16 PM »
No one wants to travel to Florida and be forced to spend time with Floridians.  You are not paying for the hot dog you are paying to eat it in peace. Streamsong is simply a private course without a membership committee.

I'm glad they are not comping raters but then again we wouldn't have this thread if they did. Free golf, $95 golf shirt and a $12 hot dog....Priceless. $2,000 nut when you are accustomed to being comped...Bitchfest.

David Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #116 on: February 15, 2013, 07:54:45 PM »
I have no idea what a quart of milk costs but I know what a hot dog should cost.  It just seems bad customer relations to jack-up the price of hot dog that much.  If the resort needs to charge $12 for a hot dog in order to survive then they are doomed anyway so why not price it more reasonably? For appearances if nothing else.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

Howard Riefs

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #117 on: February 15, 2013, 09:53:30 PM »
Why the ketchup? Sacrilege!!!

Agreed. Forget the price. I'm aghast that it's served with ketchup.

After age 12, it's no longer acceptable to eat a hot dog with ketchup on it.
"Golf combines two favorite American pastimes: Taking long walks and hitting things with a stick."  ~P.J. O'Rourke

Sam Morrow

Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #118 on: February 15, 2013, 09:55:45 PM »
Why the ketchup? Sacrilege!!!

Agreed. Forget the price. I'm aghast that it's served with ketchup.

After age 12, it's no longer acceptable to eat a hot dog with ketchup on it.


Ketchup or catsup?

Chris DeNigris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #119 on: February 17, 2013, 08:06:00 AM »
Yes indeed...everything should be the same, wherever we travel to play golf. All pricing should fall within well defined and narrow guidelines; all club policies should be standardized and uniform; all food and beverage services should adopt an industry-wide standard with strict adherence.

Oh heck, why limit it to our golf?

Why should there be cheap wine and expensive wine? I can't really tell the difference between that ten dollar bottle of zinfandel and the 18 dollar bottle...or can I?

A $12 cigar? Oh...My...God.

And we should all have the power to tell other people how to spend their money and how to market their goods and services. Because there's too many ignorant and vulnerable consumers out there that would not be able to function properly and/or would suffer unconscionable harm without our guiding hand. Because, after all, our motives are truly altruistic...right? ???

Eric Strulowitz

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #120 on: February 17, 2013, 08:39:58 AM »
Yes indeed...everything should be the same, wherever we travel to play golf. All pricing should fall within well defined and narrow guidelines; all club policies should be standardized and uniform; all food and beverage services should adopt an industry-wide standard with strict adherence.

Oh heck, why limit it to our golf?

Why should there be cheap wine and expensive wine? I can't really tell the difference between that ten dollar bottle of zinfandel and the 18 dollar bottle...or can I?

A $12 cigar? Oh...My...God.

And we should all have the power to tell other people how to spend their money and how to market their goods and services. Because there's too many ignorant and vulnerable consumers out there that would not be able to function properly and/or would suffer unconscionable harm without our guiding hand. Because, after all, our motives are truly altruistic...right? ???

HI Chris

Read the thread about Woodcrest Golf CLub in Cherry Hill NJ.  About how the spending got out of control.  A clubhouse that apparently they could not afford.  How many decent clubs have made bad decisions about clubhouses, dining facilites, swimming pools, etc that caused the club to incur great debt and maybe go under, I can think of many.  The reason the industry is seeing a great retraction is because there is a discoonect between Boards of Directors and the players, and developers and resort owners, and what their customers want and can afford.    You can wish till the end of time that you offer value, but if you don't you don't.  The customer decides what is value, you cannot impose that on him.    The players are not demanding all this gradeur, most just want to enjoy the playing field.  We all like a nice cozy bar, a nice locker room, warm showers, but we don't demand gradeur, and in some many cases that is what we get by narcissistic egotistical Boards and General Managers who are more concerned with padding their own egos, then representing the golfer at large for their unique population.

No one is saying that alll pricing should fall with "well defined and narrow guidelies, or all club policies should be standardardized and uniform"  But what I am saying is that pricing and policies should be realistic , customer -focused,  an in synch with economic reality.  Economic reality is the key, and looking at demographic trends and shifts.  So many people in this business clearly have their heads in the sands.  And then we read artcile after article here and in the local papers, and golf periodicals about clubs and resorts closing, real estate projects being halted, etc  and we ask why?  

I am telling you my friend, they are giving  away golf right now.  The private clubs, I am just amazed at the deals. And so many private-clubs, well they really aren't private anymore.  They are making tee times available on line, member for a day deals, and you just have to call and in many times who is going to turn down someone willing to play and fill up an empty tee sheet and maybe buy a few hot dogs and a few balls and whatever else.  They understand this in the UK,  a whole lot better, and even with this,  I know clubs are strggling.  I am planning several trips, and the deals I am finding are just amazing.  The deals are so good,  if you have any economic sense you can almost feel the bleeding.  Another significant economic downturn, who knows where this all goes.  I work in the health care industry, we are going through a similar bleeding right now.  Everyone is looking at costs, better ways to attract and retain customers, and doing more with a whole lot less.  Those that align with the economic realities of our time, while accomplishing the most difficult task of keeping the customer happy, will survive,  There will be so many providers dropping out,  hospitals closing or merging,  things are definately not the same anymore across many industries and we can no longer hang on to our sacred cows,  we need to call things for what they are, or live in denial and then play the poor victum when the otcomes are less than favorable                        
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 09:22:07 AM by Eric Strulowitz »

Jud_T

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #121 on: February 17, 2013, 08:41:54 AM »
If you ran a marketing firm you couldn't come up with a better campaign for this hot dog than this thread.  The infamous dog is now more of a must have than all the logoed Streamsong gear you can carry out of the shop.  Just like the golf courses, I can't wait to try it and see if it lives up to the advance billing...
Golf is a game. We play it. Somewhere along the way we took the fun out of it and charged a premium to be punished.- - Ron Sirak

Chris DeNigris

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #122 on: February 17, 2013, 08:52:50 AM »
If you ran a marketing firm you couldn't come up with a better campaign for this hot dog than this thread.  The infamous dog is now more of a must have than all the logoed Streamsong gear you can carry out of the shop.  Just like the golf courses, I can't wait to try it and see if it lives up to the advance billing...

Ha!  :)   I'll be there in 68 days...looking forward taking a bite out of the Streamdog.

I bet I'll enjoy it more and not be bothered about the extra 3 bucks (that's what we're really talking about here) if I adore the Red course on my morning round...and make a birdie or two  :)

Jerry Kluger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #123 on: February 17, 2013, 10:38:34 AM »
I think that part of the reason that so many people attend the Masters is because they feel that it is a reasonable cost for a wonderful event.  Once you are there the cost of spending the day is fair and you don't have to spend an awful lot of money on food, etc.  If I want to take my sons to a hockey, basketball or baseball game I certainly have to factor in the incidental costs such as food.  It is the same for golf. Do they have a junior rate, can they walk and carry their bag, how much will I have to spend on food?  These are all considerations that can dramatically affect the cost and the decision of whether I want to spend the money for the trip. 

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamsong knocks it out of the Ballpark!
« Reply #124 on: February 17, 2013, 12:12:32 PM »
Chris

I think you are missing the point a bit.  Eric's point is about delivering value with a focus squarely on the golf. 

I visit a lot of wine shops and keep notes of pricing and which bottles can be found at which shops.  How I price value is by comparing the bottles that are available in lots of shops.  If shop owner A consistently charges 15% extra for a bottle I know I can get cheaper elsewhere I begin to question his prices on the bottles that are unique to his shop (which obviously begs the question of why independents carry widely available wine -   its a big mistake).  Consequently I seek out a shop selling the product cheaper or look for a comparable product for less money.  Its really no different with golf. 

Ciao
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