[Josh Tarble]

Man, this thread is making me even more anxious to get back down there.  I'm hopeful I will be playing over Thanksgiving week if anyone wants to join.

[Ben Kodadek]

Made it back out to SS Blue on a chamber of commerce Saturday with no wind.  The round took 5 hours and 35 minutes.  

Ben, why did it take so long? 

The course was packed.  There were more cars there than I have ever seen (9 trips there total).  I was told that they had more rounds booked last Saturday than ever before, but I've been told the same thing the last 3 visits.  There were a few groups ahead of us that were clearly struggling.  A couple groups were granted the option to play through, but they quickly became part of the problem.  

[Rees Milikin]

Man, this thread is making me even more anxious to get back down there.  I'm hopeful I will be playing over Thanksgiving week if anyone wants to join.

What day are you thinking about?

[Josh Tarble]

I'm planning on Tuesday or Wednesday.  If I can work out the times I will be playing all 36.  I can gladly let you know the closer to the date we get.

[Daryl David]

Man, this thread is making me even more anxious to get back down there.  I'm hopeful I will be playing over Thanksgiving week if anyone wants to join.

I had the opposite reaction when reading the initial post.  If they don't get the pace of play thing fixed, I will not be going back.  I remember in the very early days of Bandon the folks there had to tackle slow play which they did successfully.  Perhaps the folks at SS should take a trip to Oregon to get some operating tips.

[Rees Milikin]

I'm planning on Tuesday or Wednesday.  If I can work out the times I will be playing all 36.  I can gladly let you know the closer to the date we get.

I could do really early Tuesday, but have a flight to Nashville that afternoon at 6:30. I live in Orlando, so it isn't too far.  Just me updated through a PM with your travel schedule.

[Peter Pallotta]

I'd bet there's a strong correlation between the average greens fee and the average length (in minutes) of a golf round on public golf courses.

I've often suspected something along those lines, John. And when I do, I assume it's because our sense of entitlement, our sense of what we deserve, is tied so closely to how much money we have to spend. How do you tell a guy who's just dropped $200 or $500 to hurry it along, especially if he thinks he's a much better golfer than he actually is and so takes none of the blame for slow play on himself? Maybe more to the point, how would that well off but not very good golfer react to anyone telling him to hurry it along? Probably by taking even more practice swings and stalking around even more 3 foot putts for triple bogie..

Peter

[Greg Tallman]

I'd bet there's a strong correlation between the average greens fee and the average length (in minutes) of a golf round on public golf courses.

I've often suspected something along those lines, John. And when I do, I assume it's because our sense of entitlement, our sense of what we deserve, is tied so closely to how much money we have to spend. How do you tell a guy who's just dropped $200 or $500 to hurry it along, especially if he thinks he's a much better golfer than he actually is and so takes none of the blame for slow play on himself? Maybe more to the point, how would that well off but not very good golfer react to anyone telling him to hurry it along? Probably by taking even more practice swings and stalking around even more 3 foot putts for triple bogie..

Peter

Pick 'em up and move 'em. Only solution once the staff allows it to get that far along. Don't care what they paid... everyone else is paying the same.

[John Kirk]

Hi Peter,

At Pacific Dunes, marshals at the 3rd and 7th tees help ensure a reasonable pace of play.  It's especially important on the 3rd tee; otherwise players might be frozen in awe.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I'd bet there's a strong correlation between the average greens fee and the average length (in minutes) of a golf round on public golf courses.

I've often suspected something along those lines, John. And when I do, I assume it's because our sense of entitlement, our sense of what we deserve, is tied so closely to how much money we have to spend. How do you tell a guy who's just dropped $200 or $500 to hurry it along, especially if he thinks he's a much better golfer than he actually is and so takes none of the blame for slow play on himself? Maybe more to the point, how would that well off but not very good golfer react to anyone telling him to hurry it along? Probably by taking even more practice swings and stalking around even more 3 foot putts for triple bogie..

Peter,

I think the answer lies within the realm of "consequences"

When there are no adverse consequences, what's the incentive to play at a good pace ?

What's the disincentive for speeding if you know there's no police presence ?

Let's change the venue, but keep the same golfer.

Instead of being at Streamsong, Pebble Beach or Bandon, he's at Pine Valley.
Certainly a course that's as difficult or more so than any of the three resorts above.

Why does he play Pine Valley in under 4 hours ?

Because he knows that he has to.
Because he has an obligation, to his host, to the group behind him, and to the club as a whole.
And, there are consequences for failing to play at pace, including removal from the course, getting his host in trouble and never being invited back again.

Some will say that because he paid (insert dollar amount) that he's entitled to play at his leisure, but that argument doesn't hold water.
His host at Pine Valley paid plenty for him as well, and if an overnight stay was included, his host payed even more.
And, his host took his valuable time to accommodate his play at Pine Valley.

In addition, everyone else at Streamsong, Pebble Beach and Bandon paid the same amount.
Why should he be allowed to ruin their day.

The resorts have to set the tempo, and they have to enforce it.
Most golfers are very considerate of their fellow golfers.
Those that aren't' should face and pay the consequences.

If a golfer/s have a hole open in front of them, they should let the group behind them go through.
If they don't, upon request of the golfers, and the Marshall, they should be removed from the golf course and no refund provided.

You can't let certain individuals ruin the day and golfing experience for every golfer playing behind them.

 .

Peter

[Jim_Kennedy]

 I assume it's because our sense of entitlement, our sense of what we deserve, is tied so closely to how much money we have to spend. How do you tell a guy who's just dropped $200 or $500 to hurry it along, especially if he thinks he's a much better golfer than he actually is and so takes none of the blame for slow play on himself? Maybe more to the point, how would that well off but not very good golfer react to anyone telling him to hurry it along? Probably by taking even more practice swings and stalking around even more 3 foot putts for triple bogie..

Peter

When a golf course is knocking back $1,000 or more per 4some it is mostly their responsibility to ensure reasonably paced rounds.
It might be true that the occasional player feels "entitled" when he and his group pay that kind of money (or greater), but in the instance cited the golf course was full. Sounds more like the management is getting a little "greedy" and overbooking. Couple that with the temper of the courses (any courses, not just SS) and you have a recipe for slow play.









 

[Peter Pallotta]

Patrick, Jim - good posts, and I agree with you. But my experience with a few public courses that were of the higher end is that a) most golfers are not very considerate of their fellow golfers, strolling with an almost purposeful nonchalance and an obvious 'I will not be rushed' attitude, and b) the golf course management (or at least the couple of marshals that represent the management on the course) are rarely in a mood/of the mind to risk offending their higher-end users (who take carts and drink on the course and might have a big dinner afterwards) by asking them to move it along. To put it another way: I rarely see golfers at higher end publics having the same respect for the course and for fellow golfers as do those who've been invited to Pine Valley. I think it's because the latter feel lucky and appreciative, while the former feel like they're doing the course a favour by being there.

Peter

[Tom_Doak]

Just to show that everyone's experience is different, I happened to get the following email yesterday from a member at St. George's who'd gone down to play Streamsong at my suggestion:

I played your course today--gorgeous weather, 3 hour round walking with a
caddie, a most enjoyable day--great course in all ways--greens are generous and
slopey but quite fair--i made 2 birdies so I liked them--haha-they ran very fast
and true--and held approach shots well too--quite a treat--very good service at
every step--love to go back sometime--be well


Slow play is a problem everywhere, but I doubt it's really much more of a problem at Streamsong than most other places.  It's been duly noted that it is harder to enforce pace of play preferences as you charge more $$$ to play the course ... they are not the only ones treading that fine line.

[William_G]

uhhh, thanks Tom, but Mondays will probably be good anywhere for speed of play unless you are playing in a fundraiser 

[Jim_Kennedy]

Patrick, Jim - good posts, and I agree with you. But my experience with a few public courses that were of the higher end is that a) most golfers are not very considerate of their fellow golfers, strolling with an almost purposeful nonchalance and an obvious 'I will not be rushed' attitude, and b) the golf course management (or at least the couple of marshals that represent the management on the course) are rarely in a mood/of the mind to risk offending their higher-end users (who take carts and drink on the course and might have a big dinner afterwards) by asking them to move it along. To put it another way: I rarely see golfers at higher end publics having the same respect for the course and for fellow golfers as do those who've been invited to Pine Valley. I think it's because the latter feel lucky and appreciative, while the former feel like they're doing the course a favour by being there.

Peter

PP,
The two genres, PV & SS, are as different as night and day.  Now, I'm not as well traveled as Pat (nor would I want to race around Pebble Beach in 2 hours  ), but I have never played a round of golf at any private club where I was held up by a group in front, it's not tolerated. Resort golf is going to have it's slow times unless the management is highly proactive and fully informs the clientele of its position on speed of play, leaving the morons among us with no one to blame but themselves if they're asked to pick up the pace...   

...and when your 4some chooses to drop 1k or more at a club you are 'doing them a favor' to some extent ( not the case here, we take your $15.00 @ and still treat you like a 'high roller'  ).

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim Kennedy,

Racing around Pebble Beach heh ?

Then you'll be happy to know that my son and I played 72 holes, in one day at a course in Long Island this year, and, on occassion, we hit more than one shot.

And, we played 9 holes with two members.

Chatted with a number of golfers we encountered and just had a great time.
Now, we were in a cart, but, since I can't walk, I didn't have a choice.
Without a cart ?  54 easy.

[Jim Franklin]

What is the nearest hotel to Streamsong?

[Jim_Kennedy]

Jim Kennedy,

Racing around Pebble Beach heh ?

Then you'll be happy to know that my son and I played 72 holes, in one day at a course in Long Island this year, and, on occassion, we hit more than one shot.

And, we played 9 holes with two members.

Chatted with a number of golfers we encountered and just had a great time.
Now, we were in a cart, but, since I can't walk, I didn't have a choice.
Without a cart ?  54 easy.

I would hazard a guess that none of the golfers that you two encountered came from behind.  

[John_Conley]

What is the nearest hotel to Streamsong?

Might be the Best Western in Bowling Green.

[Rees Milikin]

What is the nearest hotel to Streamsong?

Not sure if a BnB is your thing, but this is 25 miles away.

https://www.airbnb.com/rooms/514763

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jim Kennedy,

Racing around Pebble Beach heh ?

Then you'll be happy to know that my son and I played 72 holes, in one day at a course in Long Island this year, and, on occassion, we hit more than one shot.

And, we played 9 holes with two members.

Chatted with a number of golfers we encountered and just had a great time.
Now, we were in a cart, but, since I can't walk, I didn't have a choice.
Without a cart ?  54 easy.

I would hazard a guess that none of the golfers that you two encountered came from behind.  

Actually, a couple did ask if they could play behind us when we were on the 11th tee.
We never saw them again.

And, we did catch up to the Mayor and asked him if he wanted to join us for the rest of this round, or the next round.

[Jim Franklin]

What is the nearest hotel to Streamsong?

Might be the Best Western in Bowling Green.

Thanks.

[Keith Grande]

I believe Streamsong has lodging, although I did not check out their stay and play packages.

[Howard Riefs]

A very good fall/winter promo on rooms at Streamsong if you act quickly.

http://www.streamsongresort.com/florida-golf-resort-package/celebrate-fall-at-streamsong/

Interesting that they are discounting rooms ~50% (albeit for a limited time, but nonetheless) and it's not during summer...

[Gary Sato]

I had heard they are close to announcing the 3rd course and Matty G confirmed it yesterday on The Golf Channel. 

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