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David Ober

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Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2013, 07:53:57 PM »
I've been waiting for this for years. The Publinx had already turned into the NCAA tournament part 2. The Mid-Am isn't what its supposed to be anymore, either. Except for Smith and a handful of others, its the "reinstated  amateur" championship.

Jeff,
How about a "Neverpro" Amateur Championship?


God I would love this....

I might actually be the 537th best "neverpro mid-am" in the United States!  ;D

JSlonis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #26 on: February 11, 2013, 08:22:22 PM »
Mid-spring time frame for this one, huh? Non-private venues? I bet it'll be held at Streamsong in or before 2020.

Maybe I missed it, but where did it say anything about this new 4ball tourney being conducted on non-private venues?

C. Squier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2013, 09:39:04 PM »
I never understood why public golfers needed their own championship. All through college, I never once saw/thought that kids who grew up at private clubs had any advantage. Maybe I was just a naive public golfer  ???

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2013, 10:23:29 PM »
I never understood why public golfers needed their own championship. All through college, I never once saw/thought that kids who grew up at private clubs had any advantage. Maybe I was just a naive public golfer  ???

If you read the article, you would see that previously the am was limited to private course golfers, thereby necessitating a public am. The public am really became unnecessary when the opened the am to all. I suppose the original am was limited to private course golfers, because it was private courses that bound together to form the USGA?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Bill Shotzbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2013, 10:42:48 PM »

Jim, might be tough for the college group to play in this event as it is scheduled for early spring according to the presser I received from the USGA this morning...

"The addition of the U.S. Amateur Four-Ball Championship and the U.S. Women’s Amateur Four-Ball Championship, which will be played annually between mid-March and late May with the inaugural events scheduled for 2015, reflects the Association’s continued commitment to supporting and growing amateur competition well into the future."

Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, but NCAA rules prohibit college golfers from competing in any TEAM events during the season. That's why the young guns couldn't play in any of our GAP team matches until the challenge match on that last weekend.

So if this four-ball is played in May there will be college kids galore. Even if NCAAs are going on there will still be all of the kids who didn't qualify. But if the tourney is played in Mid-march - hardly any.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #30 on: February 11, 2013, 11:34:06 PM »
I've been waiting for this for years. The Publinx had already turned into the NCAA tournament part 2. The Mid-Am isn't what its supposed to be anymore, either. Except for Smith and a handful of others, its the "reinstated  amateur" championship.

Jeff,
How about a "Neverpro" Amateur Championship?

Jeff,

That presented a dilemma for the USGA because at one time almost every quarter finalist in the Mid-Am was a reinstated amateur.

Some wanted longer probation periods..

It's a difficult issue.



astavrides

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #31 on: February 11, 2013, 11:43:30 PM »
I would like to see a mid-Amateur Public Links.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2013, 06:08:21 AM »
In WNY, we still have segregation among private course ladies and public course ladies. They don't cross over to each other's championships and, truth be told, if you're any good, you find a cheap, non-public course to join, for the competition.

Publinks had rules that were easy to skirt, especially for college players. The "can't play private course to which your team has access" rule included summer months only. So a Wake kid at Old Town, a UCLA kid at Riviera, a Vanderbilt kid at Legends (and on) would only have to find access to courses from mid May to mid August...precisely when many were following the summer amateur circuit sun. If they weren't playing the tourney o' the week, they would be at home for a rest, basking in the guilt of being a guest at local private clubs.

My problem with the public links was this: no minimum number of rounds at public courses (nearly impossible to police) and no maximum number of rounds at private clubs (nearly impossible to police.) If we are to be letter-of-the-law people, know that adherence costs time and money.

I think that the USAPL lost its way completely in the late 1980s when the Masters took away the Walker Cup team invitations and reduced its amateur invites to 5. Suddenly the USAPL was one way to get in and many (including Michelle Wie) wanted to play. Many  found loopholes to meet the entry requirements (or dodged them all together in cloak-and-dagger stuff) and turned it into a non-public affair. Only the kids who obviously could not meet the requirements (I'll use a Peter Uihlein-type as an example) would not make an effort to enter, as they would be scrutinized to the point of exclusion.

There is a huge difference with the women's APL. Since no exemption was on the line, it did have a different flavor, although dominated to the end by college kids.
Coming in 2024
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~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Chris Roselle

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2013, 06:42:13 AM »

Jim, might be tough for the college group to play in this event as it is scheduled for early spring according to the presser I received from the USGA this morning...

"The addition of the U.S. Amateur Four-Ball Championship and the U.S. Women’s Amateur Four-Ball Championship, which will be played annually between mid-March and late May with the inaugural events scheduled for 2015, reflects the Association’s continued commitment to supporting and growing amateur competition well into the future."

Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, but NCAA rules prohibit college golfers from competing in any TEAM events during the season. That's why the young guns couldn't play in any of our GAP team matches until the challenge match on that last weekend.

So if this four-ball is played in May there will be college kids galore. Even if NCAAs are going on there will still be all of the kids who didn't qualify. But if the tourney is played in Mid-march - hardly any.

Bill, the very unique thing about the four-ball will be that the qualifiers in many areas will take place during the fall of the year before, therefor eliminating many college kids.  I certainly believe there will be some teams made up of college kids just not a tremendous amount.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2013, 06:48:06 AM »
I think that it is a great step toward eliminating our dependence/addiction on/to individual stroke play. It will be incumbent on the USGA to enforce timeliness of play, as we all know what it's like for amateurs in the limelight...we slow down...although pros do as well, come to think of it.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 01:27:38 PM by Ronald Montesano »
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Rich Goodale

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2013, 07:02:44 AM »
I've been waiting for this for years. The Publinx had already turned into the NCAA tournament part 2. The Mid-Am isn't what its supposed to be anymore, either. Except for Smith and a handful of others, its the "reinstated  amateur" championship.

Jeff,
How about a "Neverpro" Amateur Championship?


That's what's needed.  No reinstated pros, no college boys who are getting a free ride at school, and no guys with trust funds or indulgent parents who are "amateur" but play at posh clubs and don't have to worry about where they will spend the night if they lose their "job."  Golf the way it used to be for the talented but poor and well.... amateur.
Life is good.

Any afterlife is unlikely and/or dodgy.

Jean-Paul Parodi

C. Squier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2013, 01:20:38 PM »
I never understood why public golfers needed their own championship. All through college, I never once saw/thought that kids who grew up at private clubs had any advantage. Maybe I was just a naive public golfer  ???

If you read the article, you would see that previously the am was limited to private course golfers, thereby necessitating a public am. The public am really became unnecessary when the opened the am to all. I suppose the original am was limited to private course golfers, because it was private courses that bound together to form the USGA?


Yes, I know that the US Am was at one point limited to private golfers.....my point was why did it take them 34 years to figure this out?

C. Squier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2013, 01:24:23 PM »

That's what's needed.  No reinstated pros, no college boys who are getting a free ride at school, and no guys with trust funds or indulgent parents who are "amateur" but play at posh clubs and don't have to worry about where they will spend the night if they lose their "job."  Golf the way it used to be for the talented but poor and well.... amateur.

Is this a serious post?  Amateur golf was the domain of the rich, professional golf was for those who needed the money.  Your entire premise is historically false, unless I'm missing a giant dose of sarcasm. 

I don't understand the desire to banish college players.  They're amateurs and they're really, really good.  The US Am should be won by the world's best Am.  Simple.  That said, I hope the newly opened Augusta spot goes to the winner of the Mid Am.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2013, 01:28:23 PM »
The winner of the mid am gets a spot at Augusta.
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Bill Shotzbarger

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2013, 02:40:08 PM »
The winner of the mid am gets a spot at Augusta.

And guess who turned 25 in December...there's still hope!  :P

David Ober

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2013, 03:09:32 PM »
The winner of the mid am gets a spot at Augusta.

I play(ed) tournaments with three of the guys who've played in The Masters:

Tim Hogarth (actually he won the Publinx, not the Mid-Am)
Greg Puga
Kevin Marsh

Amazing players.

Steve Lang

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #41 on: February 12, 2013, 09:22:24 PM »
I guess Sand Creek Station makes a small bit of history, hosting the last one.....

... and Toledo's Ottawa Park for hosting the first one in 1922.
Inverness (Toledo, OH) cathedral clock inscription: "God measures men by what they are. Not what they in wealth possess.  That vibrant message chimes afar.
The voice of Inverness"

C. Squier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #42 on: February 12, 2013, 10:37:16 PM »
The winner of the mid am gets a spot at Augusta.

Had a mid-day brain fart. 

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2013, 05:25:26 AM »

That's what's needed.  No reinstated pros, no college boys who are getting a free ride at school, and no guys with trust funds or indulgent parents who are "amateur" but play at posh clubs and don't have to worry about where they will spend the night if they lose their "job."  Golf the way it used to be for the talented but poor and well.... amateur.

Is this a serious post?  Amateur golf was the domain of the rich, professional golf was for those who needed the money.  Your entire premise is historically false, unless I'm missing a giant dose of sarcasm. 

I don't understand the desire to banish college players.  They're amateurs and they're really, really good.  The US Am should be won by the world's best Am.  Simple.  That said, I hope the newly opened Augusta spot goes to the winner of the Mid Am.

I agree with Rihc.  I don't believe college players on golf scholarships should be called amateurs.  They are given a valuable commodity in return  for their golf skills - sounds like a pro to me. 

I also don't think college players (or any so-called amateur) taking free equipment from companies should be called amateurs - thats what pros do. 

I also don't think there should be such a thing a a re-instated pro.

In general, the rules outlining amateur status need to be far tougher. 

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Patrick_Mucci

Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2013, 06:04:06 AM »
Ron,

I agree with you on a minimum age limit.
At least 25.

Rich,

When the USGA was seeking imput on "entrants" for the inaugural Mid-am, I suggested that a "real" job  and dependents claimed on the tax return be a requirement ;D

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #45 on: February 13, 2013, 08:02:17 AM »
When the USGA was seeking imput on "entrants" for the inaugural Mid-am, I suggested that a "real" job  and dependents claimed on the tax return be a requirement ;D

smooth...
Coming in 2024
~Elmira Country Club
~Soaring Eagles
~Bonavista
~Indian Hills
~Maybe some more!!

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #46 on: February 13, 2013, 12:38:41 PM »
I never understood why public golfers needed their own championship. All through college, I never once saw/thought that kids who grew up at private clubs had any advantage. Maybe I was just a naive public golfer  ???

If you read the article, you would see that previously the am was limited to private course golfers, thereby necessitating a public am. The public am really became unnecessary when the opened the am to all. I suppose the original am was limited to private course golfers, because it was private courses that bound together to form the USGA?


Yes, I know that the US Am was at one point limited to private golfers.....my point was why did it take them 34 years to figure this out?

You were thinking the USGA was a fast moving organization? ???

;D
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Jim Colton

Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #47 on: February 13, 2013, 07:31:38 PM »
I'm actually in the process of putting together a similar competitive fourball event. Maybe part of the "prize" could be paid entry for the winning team into the USGA sectional.

Any GCAers interested in such an event? PM me if interested. Some invites have already gone out but there may be a few open spots.

William_G

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx
« Reply #48 on: August 01, 2013, 12:15:55 AM »
I wonder who (if anyone) The Masters willl invite instead of the Public Links Champion.

US Junior Boys Champion
It's all about the golf!

Steve Kline

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: USGA to end Publinx; new Four-Ball Championship
« Reply #49 on: August 01, 2013, 01:42:46 PM »
The winner of the mid am gets a spot at Augusta.

I play(ed) tournaments with three of the guys who've played in The Masters:

Tim Hogarth (actually he won the Publinx, not the Mid-Am)
Greg Puga
Kevin Marsh

Amazing players.

I've played with Kevin and Tim - both t the Mid-Am at Bandon. Kevin was the defending champ and we got randomly paired in a practice round. He was very nice and it was fun hearing about him getting his letter of invitation to the Masters and his trips there. Tim was my opponent in the first round of match play (he was one of 6 medalists and I made it in a playoff). He was one of the nicest guys I ever played with. We strolled around in our match like it was a Sunday morning at the club. He beat me 1 up on 19.