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Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« on: February 10, 2013, 09:33:31 PM »
I struggle with alignment and it drives me nuts when tee boxes don't point towards the fairway - even more mad when they point towards trouble.

Should tee box point towards the fairway or is it fair game for an architect or maintenance crew have them point wherever they want?
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2013, 09:34:57 PM »
The latter, IMO.


Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2013, 09:36:50 PM »
Do architects at times purposely point them differently?
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Bart Bradley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2013, 09:37:29 PM »
I certainly think that the player is responsible for proper alignment however, intentionally pointing the player to trouble seems a little bogus....especially on a blind tee shot.

Bart

Sam Morrow

Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #4 on: February 10, 2013, 09:42:16 PM »
What's wrong with pointing a tee box towards trouble? Isn't it a form of deception? At the end of the day it's the players responsibility to know where they are aiming.

Mike Schott

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #5 on: February 10, 2013, 09:44:48 PM »
If there is any way possible I think they should point to the target. Regarding alignment, there's not much I actually use from reading Nicklaus' Golf My Way but his alignment tip is great. Stand behind the ball, pick your line and then pick a spot a few feet ahead of your ball and use that to align your self on the tee.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #6 on: February 10, 2013, 09:47:08 PM »
Tee decks at CCBuffalo align all over the place...it was Donald J's way of smiling at golfers until golf is no more.
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Daryl "Turboe" Boe

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #7 on: February 10, 2013, 09:49:18 PM »
Didnt we have this exact same topic a couple years ago?  I think it caused a fairly rousing discussion at that time too.

Someone better than me at the search function could probably link the old one...
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Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2013, 09:50:17 PM »
Please send the other link - I have trouble finding stuff using the search function.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2013, 09:55:44 PM »
If there is any way possible I think they should point to the target. Regarding alignment, there's not much I actually use from reading Nicklaus' Golf My Way but his alignment tip is great. Stand behind the ball, pick your line and then pick a spot a few feet ahead of your ball and use that to align your self on the tee.

+1 - I've used it for years on almost every shot.

Ronald Montesano

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2013, 09:57:41 PM »
It's the same principle as spot bowling. Any other way is uncertain, unless you have amazing binocular vision.
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paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2013, 09:58:17 PM »
Do architects at times purposely point them differently?

Absolutely we do.... and personally when I get the chance I'll move the tee markers and point them off in random directions and watch the fun begin! :)  I once placed them aiming directly into the woods and you would not believe the percentage of people who would just fire away!

Still chuckling when I think of it! :)
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2013, 09:58:53 PM »
I use Jack tip also, and when it gets really bad, I will lay my club down to make sure my feet are aligned correctly.  I find myself doing that more on holes that have the tee boxes not pointing at the fairway.  I am curious if this is standard practice or just something that is not paid much attention.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2013, 10:00:26 PM »
One of the reasons I dislike rectangular tees is that they come with the expectation that they should align you to the proper spot in the fairway.

How would I know where you want to hit it?

I don't think anybody mis-aligns tees on purpose ... it just happens due to sloppy construction work, or slowly over time, due to mowing line changes in maintenance.  But, sometimes I build tees in odd shapes which I don't think provide any "alignment", and somebody accuses me of aligning them the wrong way because they've aligned with a particular side of the tee.

Paul Jones

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2013, 10:06:32 PM »
I think most would assume a rectangle tee box would aim down the middle of the fairway.  We have one hole on my home course that aligns you directly for a pond on the left.
Paul Jones
pauljones@live.com

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2013, 10:19:48 PM »
Tongue in cheek aside :P...this topic irks me when it suggests some kind of deliberate alignment trickery on the part of the designer.

I agree with Tom's post, and also with Jack's alignment system....something I've practiced since he suggested it.

It's all about personal responsibility for one's actions...or at least it used to be.

That, or blame the designer and the person who last mowed the tee and/or placed the tee markers.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2013, 10:27:36 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2013, 10:28:02 PM »
Tongue in cheek aside :P...this topic irks me when it suggests some kind of alignment collusion on the part of the designer.

I agree with Tom's post and also with Jack's alignment system....something I've practiced since he suggested it.

It's all about personal responsibility...or at least it used to be... :(

I hear players all the time tell me tees  are lined up to trouble(which is pretty amazing when they're on a round,or freeform tee), or even better tee markers aren't lined up.
My response? 
 Did you try LOOKING at the target?
Most are very busy staring at the ball and their feet-no wonder tee markers throw them off ::) ::) ::)

also AMAZED at how many people tee up in front of markers, and if you call them on it, they say the tee markers are crooked!!!!
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Ally Mcintosh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #17 on: February 11, 2013, 03:48:42 AM »
There was a heated thread on this recently.

My own view:

If an architect is using a consistent geometric shape (square, rectangle) then I think aligning the front of the tee perpendicular to the centreline of the hole is good practice… And deliberately misaligning is a little disingenuous.

However, I’m not really in to using consistent geometric shapes…. So build the tee shape that best fits the land and then there is no such consideration as alignment. Because the tee is free-form anyway.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #18 on: February 11, 2013, 03:57:04 AM »
I agree with Ally.  I always think tees on plateaux should cover the raised area, thus they could be any shape.  However, I am a big fan of low lying tees and I think these should have sharp corners and pointing toward the fairway.  Here is an excellent example of what I am talking about.


It would be interesting to see how slightly raised tees (say 3 feet) looked if they weren't squared off.  I am guessing they may look pretty odd unless short grass flows into them.  Has anybody seen tees like this?

Ciao
« Last Edit: February 11, 2013, 04:33:21 AM by Sean Arble »
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Bradley Anderson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2013, 07:34:19 AM »
It is very odd looking when you set the tee blocks up to where most golfers will be aiming and then the blocks aren't square with the edge of the rectangular tee. It happens all the time on par three holes. It looks so incongruent that you just go back to setting the blocks square with the edge of the tee.

It wouldn't surprise me if 20 years from now we will be remodeling tees back to irregular shapes.

And I think golf clubs will realize that all the extra hand mowing for the sake of the corners, plus realigning the edges every five years or so with sod, is money that can be spent on more important details.

Paul Gray

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2013, 10:21:19 AM »
It is very odd looking when you set the tee blocks up to where most golfers will be aiming and then the blocks aren't square with the edge of the rectangular tee. It happens all the time on par three holes. It looks so incongruent that you just go back to setting the blocks square with the edge of the tee.

It wouldn't surprise me if 20 years from now we will be remodeling tees back to irregular shapes.

And I think golf clubs will realize that all the extra hand mowing for the sake of the corners, plus realigning the edges every five years or so with sod, is money that can be spent on more important details.

Interesting that you should make that point regarding alignment Bradley. I was actually just thinking how, whilst I think it sloppy if the tee itself isn't straight, it just about drives me insane if the markers have been put in for the purpose of aesthetics rather than function. My subconscious brain struggles to accept that I'm pointing the right way even when my conscious mind knows full well that I am. Sorry.  :)

Ultimately of course though it's down to the player to take personal responsibility and accept it all as part of the challenge, albeit a rather poor one in my book.
In the places where golf cuts through pretension and elitism, it thrives and will continue to thrive because the simple virtues of the game and its attendant culture are allowed to be most apparent. - Tim Gavrich

Charlie Gallagher

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #21 on: February 11, 2013, 10:45:16 AM »
Well, I say that observation is a damn important part of the game and orientation to the correct line of play comes from looking at the fairway, hazards, hole shape, flag stick location etc.  Certain architects were supposedly known for creating misalignment, Tillinghast comes to mind.

Tee boxes create a demarcated area for playing the initial shot on a hole. We golfers need to be careful to discern the other info we need to hit it where intended.

Paul, your so straight off the tee, I don't think you get misaligned too often.

Me on the other hand......

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2013, 10:51:13 AM »
When you throw a football, do you ask your lineman to stand a certain way to line you up?
When you shoot a basketball, do you look down at the lines on the court, or the basket?
Stare at the target, glance at the ball(in golf), and off you go.....
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

archie_struthers

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #23 on: February 11, 2013, 10:52:35 AM »
 ::) ;) :)

I'm a big fan of free form tees. They are a little more expensive to maintain and require some additional attention when setting the blocks. However , the costs are minimal if you like the aesthetics.

Sam Morrow

Re: Should tee boxes point you towards the fairway?
« Reply #24 on: February 11, 2013, 10:55:07 AM »
If tee boxes should point towards the fairways then maybe all putts should be straight. :D