Are you ready for a really controversial thread ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

What would you be saying about this hole if Rees Jones had been the architect ?

[Sam Morrow]

Or Arthur Hills.

[jeffwarne]

Bravo?

[Steve Lang]

  I say it looks like he played Pacific Dunes and was impressed, but didn't appreciate how many lost balls and play from powder sand traps were going to hold up play

[Don_Mahaffey]

he subbed it out?

[Joe Hancock]

Of course, everyone knows where this is and who designed it, and what the par is and how is was intended to be played.

But without any of that information, what can one really tell of the architecture? We can discuss style of bunkers or siting of the green, but this is about all we can discuss with the picture provided. I bet a lot of architects could have and would have sited a green similar to this, but maybe different green contours and different bunker styling would have been implemented.

So my response would be "Rees built something here that I like the looks of".

Joe

[Jim Colton]

Nice work, Reecie!

[Tom_Doak]

"I didn't know he had it in him."

[Garland Bayley]

He spent too much money shaping and building the surrounding dunes.

[Bill_McBride]

"I didn't know he had it in him."

Ouch!

[Bart Bradley]

Pat:

Isn't the point that Rees wouldn't/couldn't have built it?

Please show me one Rees Jones hole that has a green sited and blended into the surrounds as nicely as this one.  Please show me one where the aesthetic balance is this nice.  

It is meaningless to say, "what if Rees designed this hole?"  when he appears to be incapable of doing it?  

Bart

[Michael Essig]

He spent too much money shaping and building the surrounding dunes.

Very funny.  I was thinking something along the lines of, "the bulldozer tracks have filled in nicely."

[Tom_Doak]

Pat:

Isn't the point that Rees wouldn't/couldn't have built it?

No, it's not.  I don't believe it's true that Rees Jones couldn't have built that hole.

But he didn't.

He may certainly have built other par-3 holes across the water with a green surrounded by trouble, but not in a similar setting.  Whereas, I was somewhat shy about building this hole at first, but became convinced that the setting cried out for it, and that mattered more than my normal reluctance to build a par-3 over the water to a surrounded target.

[Bob_Garvelink]

Tom Doak did a great job designing this hole.  I love the green as it appears you can "funnel" the ball towards the pin depending on hole location.  The bunkers provide a unique unique look and There is nothing better than an elevated par 3.  I can't wait to play this beauty!

[Bruce Wellmon]

he subbed it out?

"Boom."

"I didn't know he had it in him."

"Here comes the boom."

[John Kavanaugh]

Really?  It's the land not the architect as proven by the following:

Art Schaupeter forwarded me some of the before/after and construction photos of The Highlands of Elgin. I'll post them and I encourage Art to follow up with any descriptive information regarding the photos. Thanks...

Hole 4 before



Hole 4 after



Hole 7 before



Hole 7 after



Quarry pit before



Quarry pit after



A couple more construction photos

[Patrick_Mucci]

Please show me one Rees Jones hole that has a green sited and blended into the surrounds as nicely as this one.

Bart,

You're kidding about the green blending in with the surrounds, aren't you ?

Isn't it the contrast which makes the hole so outstanding in look ? 

Please show me one where the aesthetic balance is this nice.  

You're kidding about the aesthectic balance, aren't you ?

[Bill_McBride]

Please show me one Rees Jones hole that has a green sited and blended into the surrounds as nicely as this one.

Bart,

You're kidding about the green blending in with the surrounds, aren't you ?

Isn't it the contrast which makes the hole so outstanding in look ? 

Please show me one where the aesthetic balance is this nice.  

You're kidding about the aesthectic balance, aren't you ?

Look at the tie ins to existing terrain.  They are very good.  One of the things I've always liked about Talking Stick North is how well the new areas tie into the existing.  It can't be easy. 

[jeffwarne]

What would you be saying about this hole if Rees Jones had been the architect ?

The same thing they're saying now Where's the next tee?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Jeff,

Do you mean like CBM had you do at # 11 at The Creek ?

Or Pete Dye at TPC Sawgrass ? 

[Jud_T]

I'd say it's too easy for the pros to hit a smooth 7 and funnel the ball down to the hole.  I'd send him back out there to make the ridge in the green more distinct to identify excellent shots from merely lucky ones and find a proper tee around 240.   

[Patrick_Mucci]

Look at the tie ins to existing terrain.  They are very good.  One of the things I've always liked about Talking Stick North is how well the new areas tie into the existing.  It can't be easy. 

Bill,

Are you stating that the terrain in Bowling Green, Florida looks like ?

That the photo represents the natural terrain that the course was built on ?

[Ronald Montesano]

If you told me that this hole was one of 18 at Shadow Creek, I would believe it.

I'm pretty excited to play two courses during the next three fortnights: Dormie and Dunes Club (MB). Pretty large contrast 'twixt the designers. If I were to restrict myself to one type of architect or type of course, I would experience great regret on my day of reckoning.

[Matthew Sander]

Pat,

I don't want to speak for Bill, but isn't that how the land was left after Mosaic's mining operation? Obviously that's not the native landscape, but it was the nature of the property that Tom Doak and C&C encountered. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Chip Gaskins]

you squeeze the lemons you are given from client....hopefully the juice is worth the squeeze.

Ress would have never ever ever taken this project.

looks good to me, wouldn't want 18 holes of it, but certainly is an improvement to the what the land that was there before.