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Rob_Waldron

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE "Up in the air"
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2013, 10:11:37 AM »
It is unfortunate that Board Members of Country Clubs find it so easy to spend "Other People's Money" and defer the debt to future members. It is always prudent to fund capital expenditures with reserves and assessments in an effort to avoid tumultuous amounts of debt. Woodcrest has also run into the same membership problems experienced by other historically Jewish clubs...Interfaith marriage and accessibility to any and all clubs. I guess it is a sign of the times. The original reason of being is no longer valid, and is actually has deterred membership growth.
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BHoover

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE "Up in the air"
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2013, 10:16:53 AM »
Quote from: Steve_ Shaffer on February 17, 2013, 10:07:44 AM
Brian& Pat,

100 members left after the vote to expand the clubhouse. They knew.

There's more to this than meets the eye. Read the article I just posted.

Sounds worse than I would have expected. So a few influential members effectively forced the debt upon the club. Sounds perfectly prudent and on the up-and-up.  ;)
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE "Up in the air"
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2013, 10:26:50 AM »
Pat,

The property is zoned "Institutional."  Cooper Hospital and Medical School could be a likely buyer according to the article.

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Dan Herrmann

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE "Up in the air"
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2013, 10:51:08 AM »
I still want to know how the bank could have provided funding.  I can't imagine a bank making that type of loan - any banker worth their salt would know the risk would outweigh any possible profit for the bank.

What a mess.
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Patrick_Mucci

Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE "Up in the air"
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2013, 11:05:28 AM »
Quote from: Rob_Waldron on February 17, 2013, 10:11:37 AM
It is unfortunate that Board Members of Country Clubs find it so easy to spend "Other People's Money" and defer the debt to future members. It is always prudent to fund capital expenditures with reserves and assessments in an effort to avoid tumultuous amounts of debt.

Rob,

The BOG didn't have the authority to implement the plan/borrowing.
The "members" had to vote to approve the plan, and they did.
WHY ?
Because it seems that they were not financially responsible, individually, so they figured they'd enjoy the fruits of the borrowing without having the obligation to pay for it


Woodcrest has also run into the same membership problems experienced by other historically Jewish clubs...Interfaith marriage and accessibility to any and all clubs. I guess it is a sign of the times. The original reason of being is no longer valid, and is actually has deterred membership growth.

That's not accurate

Access to "any and all clubs" is not true.
At best, there's some limited access, and it's not to all clubs.
Try getting into Everglades
Intermarriage is minimal and has had little affect on access to other clubs.

Almost all clubs are suffering and will continue to suffer from the economy and from over expansion, especially in a constricted economy..

For whatever reason, Woodcrest, with a terrific golf course, elected to go the Taj Mahal route, and all the big shots who wanted to build the Taj Majal, men and women alike, got what they bargained for.

They were recklessly irresponsible


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Joe Bausch

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE "Up in the air"
« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2013, 01:33:29 PM »
Latest on Woodcrest:

Cherry Hill's Woodcrest Country Club will not open this year and an auction of the property is imminent, a bankruptcy trustee has informed members.

The trustee, Bonnie Glantz Fatell, said in a telephone interview Friday that a motion to set a date for the sale of the course, long a haven for Jewish golfers, is expected next week.

Read the rest here:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20130308_Auction_planned_for_Cherry_Hills_Woodcrest_Country_Club.html
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Mark McKeever

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE "Up in the air"
« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2013, 01:45:24 PM »
"Crestwood's principals are members of the Brown family who also control Sun National Bank of Vineland, the country club's only secured creditor. Sidney R. Brown, the bank's vice chairman, was a member of Woodcrest's board."


Shady.....



Mark
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Dan Herrmann

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE "Up in the air"
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2013, 09:54:28 AM »
.

I hope the golf course can be saved.  Tear down the clubhouse, but savethe course.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2013, 09:56:23 AM by Dan Herrmann »
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE "Up in the air"
« Reply #33 on: March 10, 2013, 04:42:45 PM »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE "Up in the air"
« Reply #34 on: March 10, 2013, 10:03:34 PM »
Steve,

Why didn't the club, when it was still member controlled, file for bankruptcy a few years ago ?
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE "Up in the air"
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2013, 10:09:34 AM »
Pat,

I don't know the answer to your question.

Here's the latest news:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20130321_Cherry_Hill_wants_to_sell_Woodcrest_CC_for_back_taxes.html

The lawyers  meters keep running...
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Morgan Clawson

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE "Up in the air"
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2013, 10:44:57 AM »
Sadly and ironically, the club house looks like a bank to me.
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Joe Bausch

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE "Up in the air"
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2013, 10:47:23 AM »
Quote from: Morgan Clawson on March 21, 2013, 10:44:57 AM
Sadly and ironically, the club house looks like a bank to me.

Pretty good observation there MC!
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Joe Bausch

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE "Up in the air"
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2013, 07:34:23 AM »
A bankruptcy trustee has entered into an agreement with a Marlton real estate group to buy the Woodcrest Country Club for $6.25 million, according to a motion filed Friday.

Read more here:

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/20130323_Agreement_on_a_deal_to_sell_Woodcrest_Country_Club_to_developer.html
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE
« Reply #39 on: April 02, 2013, 01:06:55 AM »
« Last Edit: April 02, 2013, 08:01:38 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Joe Bausch

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE- Bidding War?
« Reply #40 on: April 02, 2013, 09:36:31 AM »
Very interesting Steve.  Is there any reason to think the Union League's interest is not serious?
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@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE- Bidding War?
« Reply #41 on: April 02, 2013, 09:51:08 AM »
Sun National Bank is the key to the auction as they hold the debt:

Crestwood Property Group L.L.C. previously offered $5.1 million for the property. Its principals are members of the Brown family who are on the board of the club's main creditor, Sun National Bank of Vineland, N.J., which is owed $11.8 million.

Any bid at the auction can be topped by the Bank if they so choose.

I think the Union League , Toll  and others will be serious bidders. This is valuable property. Whether the course will be NLE remains to be seen.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE- Bidding War?
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2013, 09:17:26 AM »
This is getting real interesting as Cherry Hill Twp will enter the bidding war:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20130404_Cherry_Hill_to_bid_on_Woodcrest.html
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE- Bidding War?
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2013, 09:56:49 AM »
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE- Auction 5/20!!!!!
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2013, 10:18:34 AM »
County and Township join forces and $$$$ to bid at auction on Monday May 20:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20130518_Cherry_Hill__county_join_to_save_golf_course_space.html
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE- Auction 5/20!!!!!
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2013, 10:24:52 AM »
Another bidder enters the fray:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/breaking/20130519_Norcross_group_enters_bidding_for_Woodcrest.html

This will be a very interesting auction.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE- Auction 5/20!!!!!
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2013, 10:41:08 AM »
Quote from: Steve_ Shaffer on May 18, 2013, 10:18:34 AM
County and Township join forces and $$$$ to bid at auction on Monday May 20:

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/new_jersey/20130518_Cherry_Hill__county_join_to_save_golf_course_space.html

Steve,

The city of Camden is broke, why would the county of Camden want to spend that money bidding against groups wanting to preserve the golf course ?
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE- Auction 5/20!!!!!
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2013, 12:26:16 PM »
Pat,

The county has said $11 million is available in its open-space fund.

Open Space funds can't be used for other purposes such as helping Camden out if its mess.
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE- Auction 5/20!!!!!
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2013, 03:35:30 PM »
Quote from: Steve_ Shaffer on May 19, 2013, 12:26:16 PM
Pat,

The county has said $11 million is available in its open-space fund.

Open Space funds can't be used for other purposes such as helping Camden out if its mess.

Yes, they can.

Not directly in terms of line item finances, but, they can be used to buy run down or abandoned buildings, raising them and making parks, tennis, hand and basketball courts for those neighborhoods
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Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Woodcrest CC (Flynn) in Cherry Hill, NJ UPDATE- Auction 5/20!!!!!
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2013, 04:16:06 PM »
Pat,

If that is so, I think 11M is a drop in the bucket for what Camden needs.

http://www.camdencounty.com/parks/going-green/open-space-farmland-preservation
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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”
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