Matt Ginella's Top-40 US Public

[Mark Saltzman]

http://www.golfchannel.com/news/matt-ginella/top-40-us-public-courses/

[hhuffines]

Surprised me to see Pinehurst #4 and #8 ranked so highly...

[Bart Bradley]

I was surprised that there was one of the courses that I have never even heard of:

24. The Classic at Madden’s, Gull Lake in Brainerd, Minn. (Scott Hoffman)

Somebody tell me about it.

Bart

[Chris_Hufnagel]

From the article regarding Pacific Dunes...

"...but the 18th was drastically improved after a recent tweak, which opened up the approach to the green and a view of the clubhouse."


I guess I totally missed this development - when did this happen?  Does anyone have a details on the "tweak" or photos?

[Joel_Stewart]

He's one guy with little or no knowledge of architecture that has a powerful spot in the media.

Who's next, Paris Hiltons top 50?

[Sam Morrow]

I asked on Facebook where Wildhorse is.

[Garland Bayley]

I asked on Facebook where Wildhorse is.

It's in Nebraska.

[Peter Ferlicca]

The guy has Torrey Pines ranked ahead of Old MacDonald.  That right there shows his knowledge of architecture.  I think that Matty G thinks he is real smart about golf courses because the rest of his crew has no clue. 

[Sam Morrow]

I asked on Facebook where Wildhorse is.

It's in Nebraska.

Are you cyberbullying me?

[Jason Topp]

I was surprised that there was one of the courses that I have never even heard of:

24. The Classic at Madden’s, Gull Lake in Brainerd, Minn. (Scott Hoffman)

Somebody tell me a
Sota
Bart

It is my favorite public in Minnesota and I am a big fan of Brauer's courses here. Can chew up high handicaps but has 5 par 5s and 5 par 3s. Beautiful rolling hardwood tree forest for a setting.  Wide variety of holes.

Here is the website. http://www.maddens.com/the-classic-course.html

[Bart Bradley]

I was surprised that there was one of the courses that I have never even heard of:

24. The Classic at Madden’s, Gull Lake in Brainerd, Minn. (Scott Hoffman)

Somebody tell me a
Sota
Bart

It is my favorite public in Minnesota and I am a big fan of Brauer's courses here. Can chew up high handicaps but has 5 par 5s and 5 par 3s. Beautiful rolling hardwood tree forest for a setting.  Wide variety of holes.

Here is the website. http://www.maddens.com/the-classic-course.html

Jason:

Thank you.  But a (admittedly crappy) search of the site reveals only a few mentions...no pictures, no threads, no analysis.

One would think that the world's most comprehensive website devoted to Golf Course Architecture would have lots of information about the 24th best public access course in the US.

Any pictures?

Bart

[Shaun Feidt]

I am surprised to see so many myrtle beach courses on the list and caledonia rated very highly.  Nice courses, but just surprised where they are ranked.  By no means did I play all of these courses, but I don't like Beth page at #1.  I'm not sure it would make my top 5.

[Joe Stansell]

From the article regarding Pacific Dunes...

"...but the 18th was drastically improved after a recent tweak, which opened up the approach to the green and a view of the clubhouse."


I guess I totally missed this development - when did this happen?  Does anyone have a details on the "tweak" or photos?

I don't know about the tweak, but this is what it looked like a month ago when I played it:

[Bob_Garvelink]

Forest Dunes made the top 10  . This has to be the best conditioned public course in the state.  Additionally I love how the front and back are so different.  I played this course last year in July and there was nobody there.  I sat on the patio with some friends and was greeted by the owner with drinks on the house.  Forest Dunes knows how to treat its customers and if you have never played the course it's worth a trip and make sure you play Kingsley Club and Arcadia Bluffs while you visit the mitten.

[Eric Smith]

Forest Dunes made the top 10  . This has to be the best conditioned public course in the state.  Additionally I love how the front and back are so different.  I played this course last year in July and there was nobody there.  I sat on the patio with some friends and was greeted by the owner with drinks on the house.  Forest Dunes knows how to treat its customers and if you have never played the course it's worth a trip and make sure you play Kingsley Club and Arcadia Bluffs while you visit the mitten.

I'm a huge Forest Dunes fan. Terrific place. Really need to get back there one of these days.

[Garland Bayley]

I asked on Facebook where Wildhorse is.

It's in Nebraska.

Are you cyberbullying me?

Did you mean the ones in California, Nevada, or Oregon instead?

[Jason Topp]

[quote author=Bart Bradley link=topic=54759.msg1265892#msg1265892 date=1360114714

Jason:

Thank you.  But a (admittedly crappy) search of the site reveals only a few mentions...no pictures, no threads, no analysis.

One would think that the world's most comprehensive website devoted to Golf Course Architecture would have lots of information about the 24th best public access course in the US.

Any pictures?

Bart
[/quote]

Bart - I did a thread describing my favorite holes but I can't find it and the links went bad for the photos and diagrams I pulled from the club website.  The best I can offer you is an aerial photo tour which does not highlight the significant elevation changes on the property.

http://course.bluegolf.com/bluegolf/course/course/classicmaddens/aerial.htm

I think the course is under-discussed because:

1.  It has an 80's-90's big appearance to it and was built shortly before Sand Hills and the subsequent minamilist type courses popular here.

2.  While it is a terrific destination for a 3 hour drive the area does not contain any name courses that many are going to take a flight to see.  Giant's Ridge carries the advantage of having a terrific Donald Ross course in an amazing setting (Northland) that easily fits into a long weekend trip.

3.  The course is tough.  Eight of the holes have water carries and a few others have water in play.  People can rack up a number on an off day.  Nonetheless, my best score as an adult came on this course so it can be had on a good day.

4.  The course takes quite a bit of repeat play to really understand because there are a lot of slopes that can help you and a bunch of other slopes that can kill you.

5.  It was designed by the superintendent (Scott Hoffman) with assistance from John Harris, a former US Am champ and senior tour player.  Thus, no one has heard of the architect.

6.   They flipped the nines a few years after opening.  The original opening holes were relatively benign - a very short par five (now 10), a short par 4 (now 11) and then a 190 yard par three without water hazards (now 12).  By contrast the opening holes now are intimidating - a par five with an awkward downhill layup that is a terrific hole but difficult to decipher the first time around; a par three with water short right and a terrific short cape par 4 where the back half of the green slopes to water behind.  The holes are perfect for the midpoint in the round but intimidating as a start.  (I understand pace of play picked up by 1/2 hour after they flipped the nines.  I have no idea why).

7.  While the course is very walkable, most people ride and cart paths are pretty jarring.

[Ronald Montesano]

6.   They flipped the nines a few years after opening.  The original opening holes were relatively benign - a very short par five (now 10), a short par 4 (now 11) and then a 190 yard par three without water hazards (now 12).  By contrast the opening holes now are intimidating - a par five with an awkward downhill layup that is a terrific hole but difficult to decipher the first time around; a par three with water short right and a terrific short cape par 4 where the back half of the green slopes to water behind.  The holes are perfect for the midpoint in the round but intimidating as a start.  (I understand pace of play picked up by 1/2 hour after they flipped the nines.  I have no idea why).

I suspect that a reachable par five would back people up from the get go, followed by a driveable par four, followed by a tough par three (190 are 190, no matter what hazards). That's a guess, mind you.

[Jud_T]

I'd rather play Lawsonia than at least 28 of these courses.  Nice to see TPC Myrtle get a plug however.  Underrated track IMO.  Good to know Matty can leave the Viagra prescription at home when he's in Pinehurst.  At least it was before I felt breakfast coming back up for brunch...

[Mark Pritchett]

I have yet to see a list this group deems "credible". 

He likes Torrey better than OM, what's the big deal? 

[Sean Leary]

I'm glad he has his own opinion, and it doesn't mean he is wrong. He flat out says he is no architecture geek. His list probably looks more like the general paying public's "favorites" does than we nerds' would...

[Josh Tarble]

I'm glad he has his own opinion, and it doesn't mean he is wrong. He flat out says he is no architecture geek. His list probably looks more like the general paying public's "favorites" does than we nerds' would...

I was just going to say that Sean.  I think it's a decent enough list.  I know I could take 3 of my "non-architecture geek" friends to any of the courses on this list and we'd have a fantastic time.  Doesn't mean I totally agree with it, but that's why they say opinions are like assholes...

[Terry Lavin]

I'm glad he has his own opinion, and it doesn't mean he is wrong. He flat out says he is no architecture geek. His list probably looks more like the general paying public's "favorites" does than we nerds' would...

A voice of reason, along with Mark Pritchett!  Matty G. is not a gca hobbyist.  He is not a turf god.  He hasn't interned at Merion and he didn't consult on "The Confidential Guide".  If anything, he's a regular guy, a glib and likable sort who knows how to enjoy himself.  I met him on a trip to Bandon and he was a real card and he wasn't anything like the other well-known GD guy who famously complained about the lack of plugs in resort sinks at Bandon.  This morning, I happened to stumble by Morning Drivel and saw a thoroughly engaging interview of Ginella about Streamsong.  Many here might criticize him for rating or reviewing courses after one play, but he did a nice job of baiting the hook for the retail golfer, which happens here all the time.

I've played half of the courses on his list and would quibble with some, but a list is nothing if not debatable.  Debate the man, don't condemn him.  He loves the game and is helping promote travel golf.  What the hell is wrong with that?

[Jud_T]

I have yet to see a list this group deems "credible". 
 

Mark,

Here you go:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42368.0.html

[Jud_T]

 
He likes Torrey better than OM, what's the big deal? 

If you have to ask that question you're probably wasting time on the wrong blog.  Of course given that they've torn up the Old Course maybe we're all just fiddling while Rome burns...