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John Kavanaugh

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Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2013, 12:25:48 PM »
The Casino in Coos Bay does a great job.  Bandon is the total package.  It is not in the conversation with Vegas, unlike Kohler and Streamsong.

Ted Sturges

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Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2013, 03:17:54 PM »
John,

Ran and I took our gals down there for our recent trip to SS.  I know the Tampa area very well, and we purposely stayed in Tampa so the girls would have stuff to do (shopping, the beach).  I saw the lodge being built at SS, but other than the spa, I think a non-golf playing spouse/gal would be bored to tears out there.  SS is really in the middle of nowhere.  It took us 1 hr 10 min to get there from our hotel in Tampa.  If I were taking a female guest, I would do it the way we did it.  If you want to take guys somewhere (and stay on property while you enjoy the golf) I think SS will be a great choice.  I think the Doak course is world top 100 for sure, and the C&C course is a solid "Doak 7".  Hard to find that with public access within a 2 hour plane ride of the midwest.

I didnt' get the casino gambling gene, so I can't relate to that question.  If guys played 36 holes each day, cleaned up for dinner and ate and drank, I think you all would be too tired to do anything but plant face on pillow anyway.

Hope this helps.

TS

SL_Solow

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2013, 06:21:30 PM »
I guess I will weigh in.  The property consists of 2 distinct courses.  Given the design preferences of the architects, it is not surprising that there are similarities.  I would discount the notion that Bill Coore picked the property that would provide the most work; that doesn't sound anything like Bill Coore.  Since I did not see the property before the shaping, I can't opine on how much was changed.  However the Red (Coore) course is located amongst the more dramatic dunes.  It is a bit more schizophrenic in that the front 9 starts out with 3 very difficult holes where lost balls are a real possibility.  The rest of the 9 is quite short and while there is some real interest, it is relatively easy, particularly in the winds which we were told prevail.  The back 9 is quite a bit longer.  Greens are generally large with as many as 6 greens within greens.  While they are quite interesting, the internal contours within the "subgreens" are not as severe as on the Blue (Doak) course and the alternate routes to holes which exist on the Blue course by reason of such contours are not as prevalent.

The Blue has an outstanding collection of par 3's.  The fairways are somewhat more forgiving and as usual on Tom's courses, the game gets more interesting as one approaches the greens.  The greens are large, but they did not seem as large as the Red.  However many of the contours are more stiking but I felt that I had more options in getting the ball to the hole. Both courses are wonderful to play and while they have many similarities, the discerning eye can differentiate between them without too much trouble.  Kept firm and fast, they are a lot of fun and different from any public access course I have experienced in Florida.

Success, who knows?  I suspect a certain portion of the golfing public will view the center bunkers, wild greens, ground game emphasis as "goofy golf".  But for the rest, it will be better than any public option in Florida.  However, unless other activities grow up around it, this will not be a place to bring families.  Thus the only question is whether there are enough buddy trips during the cold weather to make it pay?  For me, it is the best late fall - early spring option for anyone from the midwest to the eastern seaboard.  But the trip has to be almost entirely golf related.  Ron Whitten expressed his doubts in this weeks's Golfworld.

Finally, I wouldn't be surprised if they slow the greens down after they achieve more play.  Otherwise play may get real slow, not to mention the frustration level of some golfers.

Tim_Weiman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2013, 10:31:26 PM »
John K:

I recognize what everyone has said comparing the two courses at Streamsong and probably agree with most of what has been said. However, I probably also agree with you that the courses at Bandon have more distinct personalities.

Yeah, I also  think that Kohler is a better place to take the wife than either Streamsong or Bandon.
Tim Weiman

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2013, 08:48:31 PM »
Just got back from a trip to SS.  First I want to say that everything about the place is spectacular. Both courses are incredible, the clubhouse is a work of art in itself.  Our group was pretty split on which course was the favorite. Both have really great holes and a couple of stretches that are as good as in the world.

We all came away saying it was a bit hard to distinguish the courses though. like everyone has said, The Blue course is a bit more subtle and the greens are mostly a bit more wild.  The Red is very bold in the use of the features and I actually think it has a couple of the most wild greens.

I don't think this is a knock at all though. Both courses are intertwined and almost does play as one 36 hole course. I think it's a fantastic features and getting to see multiple holes from each course during both rounds just help build anticipation and sense of socialness.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2014, 09:00:22 AM »
I just returned from Streamsong and was thrilled to see how different the courses are from each other.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2014, 09:09:43 AM »
I just returned from Streamsong and was thrilled to see how different the courses are from each other.

Were you expecting this?

Could you do a twitter-style, 140 characters or less description of each that would describe how different they are?
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2014, 11:21:33 AM »
Loved Streamsong.  My only criticism is that it seemed a little antiseptic - both architecturally and experientially when compared to the ruggedness of the courses at Bandon.  Kind of like the difference between downtown Franklin, TN and Main Street U. S. A. in Disneyworld. 

Does that make any sense to anyone?

Bogey
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2014, 11:28:32 AM »
Loved Streamsong.  My only criticism is that it seemed a little antiseptic - both architecturally and experientially when compared to the ruggedness of the courses at Bandon.  Kind of like the difference between downtown Franklin, TN and Main Street U. S. A. in Disneyworld. 

Does that make any sense to anyone?

Bogey

How about wood burning fireplace vs gas logs?

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2014, 11:31:31 AM »
Loved Streamsong.  My only criticism is that it seemed a little antiseptic - both architecturally and experientially when compared to the ruggedness of the courses at Bandon.  Kind of like the difference between downtown Franklin, TN and Main Street U. S. A. in Disneyworld. 

Does that make any sense to anyone?

Bogey

How about wood burning fireplace vs gas logs?


They both get the job done, no?
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2014, 11:49:24 AM »
Loved Streamsong.  My only criticism is that it seemed a little antiseptic - both architecturally and experientially when compared to the ruggedness of the courses at Bandon.  Kind of like the difference between downtown Franklin, TN and Main Street U. S. A. in Disneyworld.  

Does that make any sense to anyone?

Bogey

How about wood burning fireplace vs gas logs?


They both get the job done, no?

Yes, of course! I'm a fan of both of your examples as well.

Terry Lavin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #36 on: February 24, 2014, 11:52:09 AM »
Do you see me convincing my buds to forgo a Vegas trip for Streamsong? 

I heard a story this last weekend about 4 guys who were playing at Streamsong and asked their caddie to take a group photo of them. Then later on in the round they all four reach into their golf bags and proceed to change into different golf shirts and again ask to have a group photo taken. Later on, the same thing again - another new shirt, another new pic... As the story goes, they played the one round and then took off for Las Vegas, planning to send these pics to their wives as if they were on a multi-day golf trip to Streamsong!

Dastardly!  Divorce is expensive. They could ask me...
Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.  H.L. Mencken

Rees Milikin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2014, 12:01:37 PM »
Loved Streamsong.  My only criticism is that it seemed a little antiseptic - both architecturally and experientially when compared to the ruggedness of the courses at Bandon.  Kind of like the difference between downtown Franklin, TN and Main Street U. S. A. in Disneyworld. 

Does that make any sense to anyone?

Bogey

Love the Franklin to Disney reference...Franklin all day long.

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2014, 12:34:09 PM »
Disney rarely punches you in the mouth before check out.  I do not understand the point of the first hole on the Red course being so difficult in such a boring way. I'm playing, as I think many will, with a group of high handicappers who are just beginning on what they were hoping to be a pleasant journey and end up meeting up on the green looking like we had just completed a tour of Fallujah.  Thank God it was February or otherwise I would recommend taking a change of shirt for the second tee.  This of course can be solved by scheduling your first round on the Blue where after a climb to the top of Space Mountain you at least are given the opportunity to get to know your companions in an inviting manner.

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2014, 03:55:59 PM »
It would be great if Mark Saltzmann or Brad Klein were to write a book about the building of the two courses at this resort. I guarantee at least one sale.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #40 on: February 24, 2014, 04:32:26 PM »
I don't know about books on golf but I would like to read about their skeet shooting vision. I shot for the first and last time in the middle of a golf trip. From what I can tell the shooting facility is going to be world class.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2014, 12:38:52 AM »

From what I can tell so far from afar is that each of the holes at Streamsong could seamlessly fit on either course. 
Is this an incorrect assumption?  Could Streamsong benefit from a more schizo personality?  How do other multiple course facilities compare?

JakaB,

Would you say that each of the holes at Sebonack, NGLA, Shinnecock and Southampton could seamlessly fit on the other courses ?



John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2014, 08:51:09 AM »

From what I can tell so far from afar is that each of the holes at Streamsong could seamlessly fit on either course.  
Is this an incorrect assumption?  Could Streamsong benefit from a more schizo personality?  How do other multiple course facilities compare?

JakaB,

Would you say that each of the holes at Sebonack, NGLA, Shinnecock and Southampton could seamlessly fit on the other courses ?



Pat,

The quote you pulled from me was from before I had played Streamsong. Now that I have I believe that each course has a distinct personality where no hole from any one course would fit seamlessly onto the other. I have even come to the conclusion that people like me who have played to many courses by the same architects lose the charm of each course as they all start to look alike. Minimalism morphs into duplicitism. Sadly, quite boring from a discovery standpoint but still fun to play. That being said the Blue course did a much better job of showing me something new.

As far as the courses you mention goes I have not played, or plan to play, any. My opinion based on pictures is obviously flawed as indicated in this thread.  My guess of an answer would be no.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 08:53:33 AM by John Kavanaugh »

Ben Kodadek

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2014, 09:07:43 AM »
JK,

How many rounds did you get in and what was the breakdown of Red vs. Blue?

John Kavanaugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2014, 09:17:55 AM »
JK,

How many rounds did you get in and what was the breakdown of Red vs. Blue?

I played one round on each and shot skeet between the two. I would play the Blue course eight times for every two of the Red. I am seriously pissed at the arrogance of the first hole on the Red. I'm playing with a perfectly charming older man from the up tees who hits a solid drive and arrives to his ball in an up mood. He asks the caddie if he carries a range finder and the caddie says "Yea, two in my skull, you can't get there."  I walk over to a sprinkler head and tell my friend that he has 290 to the hole. This does not set the mood for an enjoyable day. It's a resort not a lecture hall on half par theory.

Keith Grande

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2014, 09:50:22 AM »
If planning a SS trip with a group, certainly start the first round on the Bue.  Much more user friendly. 

Plus, you can blame the double bogey on Red #1 on the burger and black and tan onion rings (yum!)

Mark Fedeli

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2014, 09:53:01 AM »
I'm very eager to go back but I find myself mostly agreeing with JK. I found Blue to be a much more interesting test.

This about sums it up for me: I walked away thinking that there were some phenomenal holes Blue that I couldn't really imagine on Red; and there were some poor holes on Red that I couldn't really imagine on Blue.
South Jersey to Brooklyn. @marrrkfedeli

Rob Curtiss

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2014, 10:00:46 AM »
I agree that the opening hole on RED is a difficult start, but felt the second hole was a fairly easy par 5.
It got me right back on track.

I would prefer the BLUE everytime - as a whole - and the first hole is a much better hole to get your round off to a good start.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2014, 09:24:50 PM »

From what I can tell so far from afar is that each of the holes at Streamsong could seamlessly fit on either course.  
Is this an incorrect assumption?  Could Streamsong benefit from a more schizo personality?  How do other multiple course facilities compare?

JakaB,

Would you say that each of the holes at Sebonack, NGLA, Shinnecock and Southampton could seamlessly fit on the other courses ?



Pat,

The quote you pulled from me was from before I had played Streamsong. Now that I have I believe that each course has a distinct personality where no hole from any one course would fit seamlessly onto the other. I have even come to the conclusion that people like me who have played to many courses by the same architects lose the charm of each course as they all start to look alike. Minimalism morphs into duplicitism. Sadly, quite boring from a discovery standpoint but still fun to play. That being said the Blue course did a much better job of showing me something new.

As far as the courses you mention goes I have not played, or plan to play, any. My opinion based on pictures is obviously flawed as indicated in this thread.  My guess of an answer would be no.

OK, I'll give you another guess  ;D ;D


Peter Pallotta

Re: Is Streamsong two courses or just 36 holes?
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2014, 10:31:57 PM »
"It's a resort not a lecture hall on half par theory."

You're like a hobbit, JK - we can learn all there is to know about you in a month, but then you keep surprising us. Terrific phrase (though whether it's true or not I don't know). Even 100 monkeys typing for a hundred years couldn't have come up with it; I know I couldn't.

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