[David_Elvins]

Whilst I have given the methodology of the Architects Course Rankings a bit of a bagging, it is always interesting to read varying opinions. 

When the final list comes out with a few more comments, it will be well worth the read. 

In the meantime, this comment in the list piqued my interest.  The New course is probably under-discussed, so what's the opinion on the following? 

“The New Course at St Andrews ticks every box for challenge, variety, beauty, charm, accessibility and history. It is ranked as my number one as it combines more of these qualities than any other course I have seen, without losing anything in the process. And its par four tenth is the finest hole I have yet played,”

[Niall C]

David

I've heard it said by locals and (Scottish) visitors alike that the New is the best course at St Andrews and I wouldn't necessarily disagree. I've played it a number of times but not for quite a while up until a couple of weeks ago. While my impression was that it was a better course than the rest, my memory of the individual holes was vague so when I played it again recently it was a really pleasant surprise how good it was, how interesting some of the greens were, particularly in the front half, and also how short the course was relatively speaking. Allegedly it has been little changed since it was laid out in 1895 with minimal lengthening.

With regards to the 10th hole, I like it well enough but not sure why you would pick it as the standout hole on the course. If anything the preceding hole is much better. A long par 3 with a punchbowl green. A gem of a hole. Overall I think the ocurse suffers, not so much in comparison to the Old Course, but in the way it obviously plays second fiddle in terms of the set up with none of the Old Courses grandeur in start and finish. However on a hole by hole basis it more than holds its own IMHO. I'll probably get slaughtered for that by the TOCophiles but there you go.

Niall

[Niall C]

David

As a means of bumping this thread and hopefully stimulating some responses let me modify my thoughts above re comparing TOC and the New on a hole by hole basis. Clearly TOC has some wonderful holes and while the par 3 17th on the New is another very good long par 3 IMHO, comparing it to the epic Road hole is a bit of a no contest. So let me just so that looking at the course as a whole I think the New is better.

Now let the abuse begin 

Niall

[Jeff Tang]

I've only played the New once but remember the 10th as being one of the cooler looking holes on the course and is one that sticks out in my mind. Blind too shot on 10 with the aiming stick, right?I remember thinking that 9-10 combo was really good.

[Bill_McBride]

Six is my favorite there, when you turn back for the first time and there are the steeples and spires of the town above a sea of gorse behind the green. 

The New is a solid course with a number of good holes, but I'm on the Old 9-1 if possible. 

[Tom_Doak]

Well maybe not all architects' opinions are created equal.

I just played the course two days ago and that was not even one of the holes that made the best impression.  I am shocked anyone would give the course more than a 6 on the Doak scale.

[Bob_Huntley]

Tom,

I have played the course in the Calcutta Cup any number of times and when coming to the ninth hole in bad weather, I am pleased when it is my partner's turn to take the shot. All in all I believe that the New deserves a six but it gives me great pleasure to play it and for that I give it an eight for enjoyment.

Bob

[Dónal Ó Ceallaigh]

Here are a few photos of the 10th from Tony Muldoon's photo tour of the New:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,42823.0.html

It's a par four of 464 yards.

[Jason Topp]

I played the New five or six times during one week 21 years ago.  It cost almost nothing to play at the time and you could simply walk onto the first tee.

I remember an honest straightforward challenge with the 9th providing the primary spark of magic.

[Tom_Doak]

Tom,

I have played the course in the Calcutta Cup any number of times and when coming to the ninth hole in bad weather, I am pleased when it is my partner's turn to take the shot. All in all I believe that the New deserves a six but it gives me great pleasure to play it and for that I give it an eight for enjoyment.

Bob

Bob:

I agree with you (and Jason) about the 9th.  It was one of the highlights of our hundred holes when we had four balls on the green there playing the full 220 yards, and played it in 3-3-3-2.  The wind was helping -- I hit 7-iron!

[Joe_Tucholski]

I don't consider it a great hole.  It's a good hole.  I think I like larger features (like on maybe cause I'm not all that perceptive and it takes me longer to figure them out.  Another thing I noticed today.  The ladies markers on the new are usually steps from the men's tees.

[Ben Voelker]

I did like the 10th when I was there, but as many have said the 9th is a far better hole.

Also, I am not sure why nobody has mentioned it yet, but I thought the 8th was fantastic, especially the greensite with the two bunkered mounds on both sides of the green.  What a unique greensite!

[Niall C]

Following my comments on the course being allegedly untouched, Melvyn sent me a fantastic newspaper article detailing the changes made by Colt over the winter of 1919/1920. I've not got the article in front of me but off the top of my head the changes include a number of new greens and new tees as well as a fair bit of bunkering, not all of which still survives. One of the changes was to the 9th (the 10th was untouched) which was shortened from 280 yards to c.220 yards that it is now and with a new green. Its not altogether clear how it was done but when I played a couple of weeks ago I thought the area immediately in front of the present green looked like an old greensite which would probably make sense if the original tee was immediately behind the 8th green.

Can't post the article but I'll summarise Colts changes and post.

Niall

[Sean_A]

The 10th?  Nah.  #s 5 & 9 are the heroes of The New.  #15 too is a very good hole.

Ciao

[Ed Brzezowski]

Played 9 last week and it is a killer. left to right crosswind, required a driver from the tees we played . While 10 is a very good hole all 8 of us were discusiing 9 over a few too many Tenants.

We left with 4 pars, two sixs and 2 others.

[Ed Brzezowski]

Well maybe not all architects' opinions are created equal.

I just played the course two days ago and that was not even one of the holes that made the best impression.  I am shocked anyone would give the course more than a 6 on the Doak scale.

I wish we knew you were in town, we were having a lively discussion about the merits of Crail Balcomie at Dunvegans.

[Bill_McBride]

The 10th?  Nah.  #s 5 & 9 are the heroes of The New.  #15 too is a very good hole.

Ciao

I love that fifth green with the deep hole in the back center.

What do y'all think about the 8th, the par 5 next to the 8/10 green on TOC?   I love the way they can hide the pin behind that big mound.

[Jonathan Mallard]

I thought that 6-14 were all very good holes with the 8th and 9th as particular standouts.

10 was just plain hard.

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