[Ben Sims]

...it doesn't matter what these guys shoot. I am enjoying the telecast.  These guys are very good and hitting some great golf shots.  I really don't care that the leader is at -19 on the 46th hole of the event.

The problem is that this is the kind of golf course that many developers and owners think the public want because it is a good tournament.  The two are different ideas and touting that mentality is paramount for architecture going forward.  

[Gary Slatter]

I hope it's being telecast in the R&A and USGA offices.  I know it is at TMAG.

All the homes are off the course with a few exceptions, 1, 2,3,4 and 5.  120,000 non-golfer spectators is great for the game!!!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ben,

Some great, really great shots are being hit.

Those guys are good.

[Ben Sims]

EDIT:

It's also proof that there is nothing of note to debate with equipment.  Uh, kind of.  I mean, who doesn't like watching a third of the field drive the 337yd 17th hole...with a 3 wood?

[Keith OHalloran]

Ben,
Can you expand on what type of course you see this as? You mention developers think the public want this ttype of course.
Thanks

[Ben Sims]

Ben,
Can you expand on what type of course you see this as? You mention developers think the public want this ttype of course.
Thanks

Keith,

A good bit of water, over bunkered.  Not so creative greens.  Really pretty turf.  Shall I continue?  A good tournament course is not a good public course.  No one seems to understand that chasing the pro game, in equipment, in predominant style of golf course, and in maintenance is really bad for golf as a whole. 

I love this tournament.  I hate this golf course. 

[RJ_Daley]

It is a stadium course.  It is designed to accomodate huge, raucous crowds, and fan behavior there has become the compliment of the other big fan-stadium sporting event of the season.  The competition is geared to titilate the sunseeker AZ crowd with heavy emphasis on a frat party atmosphere.  The course design is pretty big and sprawling (observation only from TV-I never been there), and lots of holes offer opportunities to golf your ball, "balls to the wall" sort of competition.  It is proof that many folks can get out and spectate and cheer wildly, not really give a hoot about the nuances or intracacies of the game played at the highest level.  It is  proof that the technology can create B&I to give raucous spectating to the crowd that is impressed with 337yd 3 woods, and 357yard drivers, no matter where they end up; cholla, snakes belly, cart path bounded into Sissy short shorts mai tai cup.  If a lucky charm smurf-voiced Irishman can kick a football into the inebriated crowd as a keepsake memory of a sundrenched boozy afternoon escaping winter's grasp, the Phoenix Open is proof that sometime golf can be lots of fun, raise lots of money for charity, and keep the snowbirds in town.  

[David Harshbarger]

Sure beats the crickets you hear on most tour telecasts. I Like It!

[Patrick_Mucci]

EDIT:

It's also proof that there is nothing of note to debate with equipment.  Uh, kind of.  I mean, who doesn't like watching a third of the field drive the 337yd 17th hole...with a 3 wood?

Probably every living architect

[Keith OHalloran]

Thanks Ben,
I agree that a good pro tournament course is not always a great course for the masses. I have never been to the Phoenix Open course, and I get very little feel watching a course on TV, so I didn't get what you were referencing.

[Terry Lavin]

Sure beats the crickets you hear on most tour telecasts. I Like It!

Exactly. This event is the polar opposite of the Northern Trust Open at Riviera. Crickets aplenty, but at a historic, gca Mecca. The Waste Management event is hysterical fun on a forgettable track. I like both, obviously for different reasons.

[RJ_Daley]

I can also say, 'both for different reasons' but to a certain limit.  I would watch this Phoenix tournament in context once a year, particularly on this couped up wintery weather, waiting for Superbowl, etc.  But, it doesn't make my needle jump like seeing the Riv come around again each year, and seeing the artistry of the design and layout, leading to a more generally interesting golf tournament play out, and also appreciating the aura of the setting and history of the old Hollywood types frolicking there.  Even the controversy of the changes made to the classic course and if it is true desecration by the owner-managment of the modern era are more interesting subject matter, than caddie races to the green in Phoenix.

[V. Kmetz]

Big "amen" to that RD!

cheers

vk

[Will MacEwen]

I wouldn't want it every week, but I like the way the players have to be aggressive. The ability to keep the foot on the gas and take it low is something to behold.

[Sam Morrow]

I would hate it every week but I think 16 is one of the best things in the game, holes like that and events like this are what is going to grow the game.

[William_G]

love the 16th hole  

about the 300+ yd. 3 woods, rememeber PHX is at 3000+ elevation, all equipment looks good

[Tom Yost]

love the 16th hole  

about the 300+ yd. 3 woods, rememeber PHX is at 3000+ elevation, all equipment looks good

About 1500' actually (Scottsdale Airpark)

[Mark Pearce]

Warm, very dry air, too.

As to the golf, the crowd may make this event a bit different  but the course is hardly unique in encouraging aggressive play and very low scoring.

[Joe Bausch]

Does this tournament benefit from "Superbowl overload"?

[Matthew Rose]

It's an event designed for scoring. The course is very vulnerable.

I played the stadium course when I was 21 years old and I didn't find it to be any harder than a regular course... at the time I was about a 7-8 handicap and I had a very good chance to break 80. I'm close to a scratch these days so I think if I played well I could shoot close to par.

It was in April and it was in pristine condition. I made some long putts. I was actually hurt by excessive spin on a couple of shots, which at that time rarely happened to me since I was still playing mostly munis at this point.

16 is an easy hole. There are a couple of bowls on the green which collect shots; my dad and I both had 10 footers for birdie that we missed. The pin was close to the Tiger ace location.

The course does what it is supposed to do, which is allow for ridiculously aggressive shot making, to look pretty on television, and to give a 21 year old average schmuck from Wisconsin like me the "authentic PGA tour experience" for an afternoon in April 1998.

I'm not sure it has much in the way of architectural memorability other than the tournament aspects of the last four holes, which were very fun to play. The front nine is almost completely forgettable except for the one par-five (#3) which I liked.

[Greg Taylor]

Good clean fun, golf competes with other sports and we all need new people (revenue) coming on stream and this events attracts people that otherwise wouldn't show an interest....

Not sure they'll be watching it in the club house at Muirfield...!

[Mark Pearce]

I don't believe they have a TV, so no, they won't be.

[Matthew Petersen]

I hope it's being telecast in the R&A and USGA offices.  I know it is at TMAG.

All the homes are off the course with a few exceptions, 1, 2,3,4 and 5.  120,000 non-golfer spectators is great for the game!!!

1 and 2 are squeezed back into a corner with homes down the right side of both holes, very much in play. Certainly the two wekest holes on the course. 3 has some homes down the right, but pretty well out of play (there's a wash right of the fairway that creates a buffer). 4 and 5 have the Princess hotel alongside. Not really in play on 4 (a short par 3, but potentially in play as OB down the right of 5). After that, there's no real OB.

The course, isn't sprawling at all IMO. Compared to a typical; desert course it's a very compact routing, actually. It has a "big" feel because the spectator stadium mounding makes each hole feel isolated, but they really aren't. The 10th green sits immediately next to the 16th green. Ditto the 11th tee, of course. Surely makes putting on 10 and driving on 11 that much tougher during the tourney.

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