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Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #25 on: January 30, 2013, 09:07:18 PM »
Mark, there are a lot of good holes out there and one thing I've learned is I don't often see things the same way as the majority. I don't know if everyone thinks Blue 11 should be considered among the best holes out there or not. I certainly did not dislike the hole, and I like the green complex a lot, but I found others to be more interesting.

Don, I think you'll be in the majority on this one.

Per Tom Doak:


I don't mind having some holes on the flatter land in the middle of Streamsong Blue (9th to 11th), and I don't think Bill Coore minds having his, either.  But it was VERY predictable that lots of golfers, like Pete, would identify these as his "least favorite" holes on the property.  And it may well be that it's the difference between the courses being top-10 modern courses and only top-50, because panelist types love to look for "weaknesses".



Careful, you're almost being called a panelist type  ;D  ;) .  I hope you take this in jest!

Peter Pallotta

Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #26 on: January 30, 2013, 09:12:40 PM »
Don - thanks, it was a genuine pleasure reading your analysis of those golf holes. I particularly liked the clarity of your description of Blue 18: two good shots will get you there, but there is not where you want to be - and yet a veteran professional still wants to go there, twice!

Peter

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2013, 09:13:47 PM »
Jeff,
Before anything gets blown out of proportion, let me be clear in saying that I think the conditions at Streamsong are outstanding. I think anyone out there these last few days would say the same thing. They are working very hard to try and get the bermuda to play firm and fast. Its good now and it will get better in time.

Blue 13 is a very interesting hole with a green that looks to me to fall to the back. Plus the green is long front to back so with a front pin its not like just hitting it over the back results in an easy up and down. When the approaches get firmer, then I think a well gauged shot with the proper trajectory has a chance to hit short of the green and bounce on. I do not think the greens needs to be changed at all.

They were top dressing approaches yesterday and I think in time they will have the greens and approaches just where they want them.

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2013, 09:16:57 PM »

Careful, you're almost being called a panelist type  ;D  ;) .  I hope you take this in jest!

Mark, I've already given both courses the highest rating on the Mahaffey scale : Play them every chance you get.

As far as looking for weakness, I'm not doing that at all, I'm looking for greatness, and their is a bit out there at Streamsong.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2013, 09:25:27 PM »
Jeff,
Before anything gets blown out of proportion, let me be clear in saying that I think the conditions at Streamsong are outstanding. I think anyone out there these last few days would say the same thing. They are working very hard to try and get the bermuda to play firm and fast. Its good now and it will get better in time.

Blue 13 is a very interesting hole with a green that looks to me to fall to the back. Plus the green is long front to back so with a front pin its not like just hitting it over the back results in an easy up and down. When the approaches get firmer, then I think a well gauged shot with the proper trajectory has a chance to hit short of the green and bounce on. I do not think the greens needs to be changed at all.

They were top dressing approaches yesterday and I think in time they will have the greens and approaches just where they want them.

Don,
Sorry I should've clarified I was there last week.
I really liked the hole-It was my first and 19th ;) in our shotgun , and I played the course one other time,
Greens were really fast the day I played,Which is why i asked.
 (I thought perhaps you were referring to UK links golf conditions where one of the reasons approaches and greens match is because greens are much slower(or at least used to be ::))
I found the fairways firm enough and agree conditions were outstanding.
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2013, 09:26:39 PM »
Jeff,
Before anything gets blown out of proportion, let me be clear in saying that I think the conditions at Streamsong are outstanding. I think anyone out there these last few days would say the same thing. They are working very hard to try and get the bermuda to play firm and fast. Its good now and it will get better in time.

Don:  Not sure if you knew but I was told the Blue has been ready for play over one year.  They wanted to open the courses up together and needed to wait for the Red to mature.   As a result the Blue was able to mature nicely.

I liked both of the 18 holes and birdied them both at some point but I thought the Blue was very majestic and had the best view on the property.  As a result I would choose the Blue for the ecletic 18.

JR Potts

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #31 on: January 30, 2013, 09:27:45 PM »
It is funny that nobody mentions it but Blue 12 was my favorite hole on the property filled with great holes.  The layout is perfect, the strategy is great and visually it is beautiful.  Add those characteristics to an awesome green and you have a winner.  Red 7 is my runner-up followed by Blue 4.

Wyatt Halliday

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #32 on: January 30, 2013, 11:24:25 PM »
Mark, there are a lot of good holes out there and one thing I've learned is I don't often see things the same way as the majority. I don't know if everyone thinks Blue 11 should be considered among the best holes out there or not. I certainly did not dislike the hole, and I like the green complex a lot, but I found others to be more interesting.

Don,

I was fondly reminded of Wolf Point when playing the eleventh at the Blue.

Not just the big reveal when you arrive to the green, but how mysteriously tame it looks from the fairway on approach. You have to be in complete control of your golf ball if you plan to hit it close. I think it's an Ivy League green...superior at eloquent rejection.


Wyatt Halliday

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #33 on: January 30, 2013, 11:27:30 PM »
Also, I mentioned to anyone within earshot (especially Mike N.) that the hole reminded me of the 15th at Wolf. Different pars of course, but level land and hidden features.

Don_Mahaffey

Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #34 on: January 31, 2013, 06:37:14 AM »
Wyatt,
Well now I feel like I missed something. And I knew I would as how are we supposed to absorb and process 36 holes in just a few days? I had Blue 3 up in a head to head, hole by hole match, but I can't ever imagine going back and not playing both courses.

When I posted my top 15 holes I knew there would be mild disagreement and I think that's good. there are a lot of good holes at Streamsong.

JR, I liked the 12th. On my first play I hit one of my strongest drives and ended up about 5 yards from the lake, with a downhill lie to a green above me. It didn't turn out well but I did get up and down from the back left bunker with my best sand shot of the trip. Second play I laid back on the flat between the native knob on the left and the bunkers on the right. (which I might add I found to be some of the most beautiful bunkers out there with the Cogangrass lining the top edges) I proceeded to push my approach to the right and into the hazard. Its a cool hole and I liked the entire green complex a lot.

Chris Johnston

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #35 on: January 31, 2013, 08:03:02 AM »
I played a bit of a composite my last round - involuntarily   ;D

Tons of really good holes and tons of vertical golf!  You had to pay attention.  Just very well executed, and fun.

The site is what make both places really cool.  Honestly, I forget I was in Florida.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #36 on: January 31, 2013, 12:19:51 PM »
I'll take a crack at this.  I have better recollection of the Red course; I played it twice, but was only able to play the Blue course 1.5 times. 

1 - Red
2 - Blue
3 - Blue
4 - Blue (liked both very much)
5 - Blue
6 - Red
7 - Red
8 - No Decision
9 - Red

10 - Red
11 - Blue
12 - Red
13 - Red (liked both)
14 - Red
15 - Blue
16 - Blue
17 - Red
18 - Blue

This is a fun exercise.  Seeing golf holes once, especially when playing a match, is just not enough for look around.  In addition, these are complex golf courses, best appreciated by repeat plays with different pin positions.  I was quite dehydrated by the second day, and was just hanging on the last couple of days.  A few specific remarks:

#15 Red may be the longest par 4 I've ever played.  I like many things about it, especially the green, but I felt the inevitable layup to play for bogey was very tough, and the long uphill walk at that point in the round made it pretty demoralizing.  The relatively straightforward Blue hole wins by a nose.

#16 Red vs. #16 Blue is a close call.  #16 Blue is very jarring to my eye, in a "I don't think I have that shot" way.  Actually, both of these holes strongly favor a fade, which I can usually execute for a few weeks in late summer.

I like most everything about #7 Blue, especially the various tees and angles it can be played, but I am unconvinced the disruptive walk onto the island and back to #8 tee is worth it.  From the 190 tees, a long and demanding tee shot.

I'd like to hear an explanation for the center bunker on #8 Blue.  Maybe my winter golf ability makes it seem overly penal.

Overall, the courses seemed very difficult, with especially demanding tee shots to get into scoring position.  This probably means I'm driving it poorly, and the architects understand how well many players drive it these days.


Mark Saltzman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #37 on: January 31, 2013, 01:12:19 PM »
For those that pick 1 Red over 1 Blue (and that seems to be the majority), can you explain why?

I found 1 Blue to be a tremendous short par-4, offering options from the tee and interestingly rewarding (and penalizing) well-played (and mis-positioned) tee shots.

I found 1 Red to be a long and difficult but ulitmately straight-forward par 4.5 where neither the tee shot nor approach was particularly compelling.

Anyone?

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #38 on: January 31, 2013, 01:16:14 PM »
Mark,

I thought each opening hole were among the least compelling holes on their respective courses, and for me it was that Red #1 was a lot prettier to me.

John Kirk

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #39 on: January 31, 2013, 01:37:09 PM »
Also Mark, let me add that for me, the strategy of Blue #1 was rather trivial, an easy swing at a driver followed by a 90 yard wedge shot where I'm not trying to be too fine, just get it on the green and start with a par.

Jim Colton

Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2013, 12:58:58 AM »
Bumping for all of our recent GCA outing participants

Jim Nugent

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2013, 02:42:15 AM »
1.   Blue
2.   Blue
3.   Red
4.   Red
5.   Blue
6.   Blue
7.   Red
8.   Red
9.   Red      Toughest call here ( my favorite green on the property vs my favorite par 5 on the property)
10. Red
11. Red
12. Blue
13. Blue
14. Red
15. Red
16. Red
17. Blue
18. Red

I prefer the Blue, particularly the start, but gosh these are two very fun golf courses and I can't wait to go back to play them again and again.

Eric, just curious why you prefer the Blue overall, when you choose 11 holes from the Red as better. 

Josh Tarble

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2013, 09:46:16 AM »
Jim,
I can't speak for Eric, but I had commented to another GCAer that I found the red hole to have better individual holes, but I liked the Blue course better overall.  I can't really put my finger on it, but I thought the Blue had a better flow.

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2013, 12:50:21 PM »
1.   Blue
2.   Blue
3.   Red
4.   Red
5.   Blue
6.   Blue
7.   Red
8.   Red
9.   Red      Toughest call here ( my favorite green on the property vs my favorite par 5 on the property)
10. Red
11. Red
12. Blue
13. Blue
14. Red
15. Red
16. Red
17. Blue
18. Red

I prefer the Blue, particularly the start, but gosh these are two very fun golf courses and I can't wait to go back to play them again and again.

Eric, just curious why you prefer the Blue overall, when you choose 11 holes from the Red as better. 

Jim,

A good question. First of all, I wouldn't dream of not playing them both an equal # of times when I go back and do reserve the right to change my mind! :) My preference for the Blue, though only slight, is attributed to the start of the round more than anything. On the Red, I felt as though I was having to swing defensively over the first three tee shots. That hurt my impression of the course from the outset though any trepidation I had was short lived because the next couple of hours were probably the best golf at Streamsong. Just so much cool stuff out there. Loved 9 green!

The first two holes of the Blue are much less agonizing from the tee. These holes are get-able and are the type of golf holes that I prefer at the start of a round. Of course 'get-able' and 'got' are two completely different things! You have to be in position on Tom's greens in order to have a chance at making birdie.

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2013, 04:19:44 PM »
Apologies for the complete hijack here but I didn't want to start another Streamsong thread.

Does anyone happen to know the length of the driving range at Streamsong?

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #45 on: March 12, 2013, 04:36:59 PM »
Unless I totally missed it, there is no driving range currently...

Jim Colton

Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #46 on: March 12, 2013, 04:37:59 PM »
Unless I totally missed it, there is no driving range currently...

You totally missed it. It's right by 18 Red. It's gotta be 350+ yards long?

Alex Miller

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #47 on: March 12, 2013, 04:40:34 PM »
Unless I totally missed it, there is no driving range currently...

How many days were you there for?  ;D

Guess you came ready to play.

rjsimper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #48 on: March 12, 2013, 04:42:25 PM »
Unless I totally missed it, there is no driving range currently...

You totally missed it. It's right by 18 Red. It's gotta be 350+ yards long?

That's kind of what I was hoping....any chance someone has an accurate number on this? I may be there with a guy who hits it 400 yards. Not kidding.

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Streamix: Streamsong Ecletic
« Reply #49 on: March 12, 2013, 04:43:34 PM »
Not a single person working there mentioned it. I would have used it if I knew...