[John Kavanaugh]

1. Purgatory
2. Riviera
3. Cuscowilla
4. Tie - Pacific Dunes/Torrey Pines South
5. Bethpage Black
6. ANGC
7. Dismal River
8. Victoria National
9. Sand Hills

10. Pasatiempo
11. Pinehurst #2  revised to Bandon Trails
12. Pebble Beach
13. Bandon Trails  revised to Wolf Run
14. Oakmont
15. Ballyneal
16. Hazeltine
17. Olympic Lake
18. Tobacco Road

[Anders Rytter]

1. Purgatory
2. Riviera
3. Cuscowilla
4. Tie - Pacific Dunes/Torrey Pines South
5. Bethpage Black
6. ANGC
7. Dismal River
8. Victoria National
9. Sand Hills

10. Pasatiempo
11. Pinehurst #2
12. Pebble Beach
13. Bandon Trails
14. Oakmont
15. Ballyneal
16. Hazeltine
17. Olympic Lake
18. Tobacco Road

John,
I found 15th at Ballyneal very fun to play. Especially from a relatively long-tee, player ability and wind conditions taken into consideration.

[John Kavanaugh]

I loved it too but thought it didn't fit the rest of the course.  Feels Nicklaussy.  All these are fine holes in their own right they just don't make the grade for where they sit.

[Patrick Glynn]

John,

In a similar thread on Best 18, I actually had 10 at Pasatiempo short-listed for the best 10th hole. What don't you like about it?

I like the green, the interesting funnel-bunker short left & the tee-shot has a cool speed slot down the right. Detractors being the road immediately behind the green, proximity to 17th fairway & potentially the fact that the barranca carry is not long enough.

Regards,

Patrick

[Alex Miller]

1. Purgatory
2. Riviera
3. Cuscowilla
4. Tie - Pacific Dunes/Torrey Pines South
5. Bethpage Black
6. ANGC
7. Dismal River
8. Victoria National
9. Sand Hills

10. Pasatiempo
11. Pinehurst #2
12. Pebble Beach
13. Bandon Trails
14. Oakmont
15. Ballyneal
16. Hazeltine
17. Olympic Lake
18. Tobacco Road

John,
I found 15th at Ballyneal very fun to play. Especially from a relatively long-tee, player ability and wind conditions taken into consideration.

John,

I see you've played Torrey Pines South, so how was the 15th there not your choice?   It's my least favorite hole on the course, and the 4th is probably in my top 5 favorites.

In fact, that course could probably have a few holes in this worst of 18.

I'm also surprised to see Pasa's 10th, ANGC's 6th (which I haven't played but do admire), and BPB's 5th.

[John Kavanaugh]

I can't stand the half-pipe bunker where Mackenzie left a tree smack dab in the middle.  I have not been back since Doak's renovation so do not know if the tree is still there.  

[John Kavanaugh]

1. Purgatory
2. Riviera
3. Cuscowilla
4. Tie - Pacific Dunes/Torrey Pines South
5. Bethpage Black
6. ANGC
7. Dismal River
8. Victoria National
9. Sand Hills

10. Pasatiempo
11. Pinehurst #2
12. Pebble Beach
13. Bandon Trails
14. Oakmont
15. Ballyneal
16. Hazeltine
17. Olympic Lake
18. Tobacco Road

John,
I found 15th at Ballyneal very fun to play. Especially from a relatively long-tee, player ability and wind conditions taken into consideration.

John,

I see you've played Torrey Pines South, so how was the 15th there not your choice?   It's my least favorite hole on the course, and the 4th is probably in my top 5 favorites.

In fact, that course could probably have a few holes in this worst of 18.

I'm also surprised to see Pasa's 10th, ANGC's 6th (which I haven't played but do admire), and BPB's 5th.

Alex,

I have not played all the courses on this list.  This is not me bragging about where I have played.  I hate the 6th at ANGC because of the mouth breathers that sit on that hill every April while the golfers hit balls over their heads.  It is a bore fest.

[Ari Techner]

Couldn't disagree more with you on 9 at Sand Hills.   It is a little bit of a sleeper hole maybe the first one or two times you play it but after multiple plays in different conditions this is one of my favorite holes on the course.  The tee shot is a challenge and you must decide if you want to flirt with the bunkers left of the fairway or flirt with the right side and the edge of the dogleg.   Either way you have to commit to a shot and execute it and the ever present wind makes it even more of a challenge.  The approach shot is also very challenging and gives you tons of options of what kind of shot to hit into the green.  The green itself is very good and up and down is extremely challenging unless you are smart enough to leave it short right.  Short left and long is a very tough place to miss.  All in all a fantastic mid length par 4 IMO.  

[Bill_McBride]

I can't stand the half-pipe bunker where Mackenzie left a tree smack dab in the middle.  I have not been back since Doak's renovation so do not know if the tree is still there.  

Tree gone, doubt if Mackenzie left it.   I love to play a draw at the far right edge of the green.

What's wrong with #2 at Riviera?  It's harder than #1, a par 5.

Cuscowilla #3?  Nice par 3 with minor Redan quality.

#13 at Bandon Trails is one of my favorite holes there, love that huge greenside bunker.

Oakmont #14?  Unassuming short par 4 with narrow drive betwen bunkers.  Not a "worst hole" to me.

I realize these are opinions but I disagree with yours!

[John Kavanaugh]

Here is proof of where Mackenzie lost in on #10.

http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/slideshows/flash/hist1/hist1.php

And an oldie but goodie discussing it.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,31402.0.html

[Alex Miller]

I believe that if Bandon Trails had the name "Crump" or "Ross" or "Raynor" on the scorecard instead of C&C 13 would be looked at in higher regard by a larger percentage of players. It is penal, but also a great hole, and although penal golf holes are often bad it is not automatically the case. Correlation does not equal causation.

I always look at 12 and 13 in combination as they are very complimentary. 12 has gathering slopes, 13's are repelling.

[Bill_McBride]

Here is proof of where Mackenzie lost in on #10.

http://www.pasatiempo.com/web/slideshows/flash/hist1/hist1.php

And an oldie but goodie discussing it.

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,31402.0.html

Well done sir.  You're right, it's awful.  But it's still a great not worst hole.  IMHO.

[John Kavanaugh]

I almost named the 18th at Cypress but didn't want to sound like a hack.  You would have to love the 3rd at Cuscowilla considering you get a half hour on the tee looking at it.  They need to put that sequence of holes in a textbook on how not to route a course.

[Chris Johnston]

1. Purgatory
2. Riviera
3. Cuscowilla
4. Tie - Pacific Dunes/Torrey Pines South
5. Bethpage Black
6. ANGC
7. Dismal River
8. Victoria National
9. Sand Hills

10. Pasatiempo
11. Pinehurst #2
12. Pebble Beach
13. Bandon Trails
14. Oakmont
15. Ballyneal
16. Hazeltine
17. Olympic Lake
18. Tobacco Road

John,

What would you like to see done, if anything, on DR #7 to make it a a less "worst hole?

[Rick Shefchik]

It wouldn't be a "worst" thread without taking a shot at Hazeltine. Selecting Hazeltine's signature hole -- a really great par 4, in my opinion --  just ups the ante.

[John Kavanaugh]

My issue with the 7th at Dismal is that it is the only hole on that course that you might find anywhere else.  It's a little textbook for that course.  Honestly, with the other courses I have on this list I had to fall on my membership sword to keep it legit.

[Michael George]

I used the same courses from my top 18 as a reference.  I gave the courses praise, now I take it away... kinda of.  At a minimum, some are just my least favorite holes on that course.

1  Pacific Dunes (one of my favorites needs better opener - need to lower tee and make fairway wider - worst hole on course)
2  Country Club (PP) (boring par 5 with little interest - worst hole on course)
3  Wolf Creek (I usually like uphill par 3s like Dismal River #5, but this one is just stupid - horrible hole on any course)
4  Muirfield Village (feels like hole that was needed to connect the routing - just awkward hole)
5  Ballyneal (#5-6 are the least memorable holes on great course)
6  Calusa Pines (fine hole, but 2nd of a back to back doglegs right - so much so it is hard to differentiate them after playing)
7  Dunes Club (nice hole but probably least favorite on course)
8  Bandon Dunes (average hole - hit drive left and have open green with little interest - actually dislike #9 and #18 more though)
9  Old MacDonald (decent hole, but not a great Cape - worst hole on course)
10  Pinehurst #2  (long par 5 that lacks the interest of other holes - worst hole on course)
11 Oakmont (boring short par 4 that is too similar to 14 - hard time picking between #10, 11 and 14)
12  Sand Hills (had to pick one so it was either 9 or 12, which are the only average holes on the course)
13  Pete Dye (worst par 3 on course - just not much going on - and clearly done solely to connect 12 and 14)
14  Dismal River (would be good if it had fairway on top of left ridge so it played on top of ridge instead of down in it - green is good)
15  Oakland Hills (middle fairway bunker on a narrow hole to begin with - doesn't work IMHO - could have picked #6, #12 and #16 too)
16  Bandon Trails (great green, but pretty boring slog getting there - worst hole on course)
17  Brookside (long straight par 5 - worst hole on course, but could have picked #5 which is a good hole that does not fit the course)
18  Arcadia Bluffs (possibly the worst hole on a top 100 in the US - just terrible hole)

[John Kavanaugh]

It wouldn't be a "worst" thread without taking a shot at Hazeltine. Selecting Hazeltine's signature hole -- a really great par 4, in my opinion --  just ups the ante.

Who's next, Ron Kern going to throw a bitch fit over Purgatory being included?  It is an honor to be on this list.

[Sam Morrow]

14 at Dismal River instantly becomes a great hole from about 320.

[Bruce Katona]

Country Club of the Poconos at Big Ridge.....picka a hole, any hole, and it may qualify for this esteemed list.

[Michael George]

John,

What would you like to see done, if anything, on DR #7 to make it a less "worst hole?

Chris - don't listen to John on #7.  It is the contrarian in him.  While I would make some modest changes to the course, #7 is not one of them.  Great hole.  

As you know, I love your place.  It is just a really fun club with a fun golf course.  However, if you were going to change one thing, it would be to widen some fairways where you drive the ball - mostly for golfers that are new to the course.  In particular, #1 and #9 to the right.  Also, as noted above, I think #14 would be incredible if you played your tee shot left on top of the dune.  

Or you could not do a thing and still have a great place.      

[John Kavanaugh]

I used the same courses from my top 18 as a reference.  I gave the courses praise, now I take it away... kinda of.  At a minimum, some are just my least favorite holes on that course.

1  Pacific Dunes (one of my favorites needs better opener - need to lower tee and make fairway wider - worst hole on course)
2  Country Club (PP) (boring par 5 with little interest - worst hole on course)
3  Wolf Creek (I usually like uphill par 3s like Dismal River #5, but this one is just stupid - horrible hole on any course)
4  Muirfield Village (feels like hole that was needed to connect the routing - just awkward hole)
5  Ballyneal (#5-6 are the least memorable holes on great course)
6  Calusa Pines (fine hole, but 2nd of a back to back doglegs right - so much so it is hard to differentiate them after playing)
7  Dunes Club (nice hole but probably least favorite on course)
8  Bandon Dunes (average hole - hit drive left and have open green with little interest - actually dislike #9 and #18 more though)
9  Old MacDonald (decent hole, but not a great Cape - worst hole on course)
10  Pinehurst #2  (long par 5 that lacks the interest of other holes - worst hole on course)
11 Oakmont (boring short par 4 that is too similar to 14 - hard time picking between #10, 11 and 14)
12  Sand Hills (had to pick one so it was either 9 or 12, which are the only average holes on the course)
13  Pete Dye (worst par 3 on course - just not much going on - and clearly done solely to connect 12 and 14)
14  Dismal River (would be good if it had fairway on top of left ridge so it played on top of ridge instead of down in it - green is good)
15  Oakland Hills (middle fairway bunker on a narrow hole to begin with - doesn't work IMHO - could have picked #6, #12 and #16 too)
16  Bandon Trails (great green, but pretty boring slog getting there - worst hole on course)
17  Brookside (long straight par 5 - worst hole on course, but could have picked #5 which is a good hole that does not fit the course)
18  Arcadia Bluffs (possibly the worst hole on a top 100 in the US - just terrible hole)

That is a great list in the spirit of the thread. Thanks.

[Michael George]

John:

Can you also explain the following choices:

4. Pacific Dunes
13. Bandon Trails

They may be my favorite holes on each course and you picked them as the worst?

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm driving. The holes were not to die for.  More later.

[Tim_Weiman]

Michael George,

I am not a fan of Arcadia Bluffs, but didn't actually mind the finishing hole. Sort of "heroic", IMO - at least the uphill approach shot.

What are you thoughts?

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