[David Ober]

I played a course last week in the San Diego area called Stoneridge CC in Poway. The 14th (I believe) hole is a 370ish yard severely downhill par 4, and there was something about it that I really liked:

If you hit driver and tried to get a ball down by the green, you would invariably be faced with the following:

A 30 yard pitch from a downhill lie to a bunkered green that slopes away from you. When the pin is front, that's a very difficult shot to stop, and I love holes like that. They require that you think before you tee off. If you're not comfortable hitting that shot, then do NOT hit driver off the tee!

What happens a lot, though, is that guys will bomb a driver down the middle, be left with that tough pitch shot, proceed to skull it long or dump (dumb?) it in the bunker, walk away from the hole with a bogey, scratch their head, and ask "What just happened"? They will consequently think the hole is "stupid" or "bad" or whatever pejorative they choose.

Personally, I love holes like that, but the member I played with said he hates that hole! LOL!

Thoughts?

[Mike Benham]

David -

Does the hole demand that you hit driver off the tee?

Would a tee shot that left a full wedge to the front hole location, result in more pars / birdies and no scratching of ones head?

Obviously, I have never played or seen the hole ...

Mike

[David Ober]

No, it does not demand that you hit driver off the tee. In fact, it's probably not the best play for most players.

The hold does require that you be able to spin the heck out of a ball in order to get it close when the pin is on a front position, regardless of what club you hit off the tee due to the downhill nature of both the fairway and the green....

David -

Does the hole demand that you hit driver off the tee?

Would a tee shot that left a full wedge to the front hole location, result in more pars / birdies and no scratching of ones head?

Obviously, I have never played or seen the hole ...

Mike

[Bruce Wellmon]

Anywhere on the green. #13 at Harbour Town.
It's all about the trees, the angles, and that small target. 

[Tim Gavrich]

David, can you see where the pin is on the green when you stand on the tee box of the hole you describe? Or, alternatively, do you end up near that green sometime in the first 13 holes. I like the idea of specific hole locations demanding a certain strategy, but if it's pot luck then something would seem to be lost.

[Doug Siebert]

Tim,

Why do you need to know where the pin is?  If you don't know, but have played the hole before, deciding to hit driver is risk/reward just like trying to cut the corner over a lake or any other risk/reward decision in golf.  After all, the worst case outcome is that you hit driver, find the pin is cut in the front, and can't stop the ball close.  Presumably it is still possible to two putt, so you are only giving up a birdie chance, not surrendering par.

[Duncan Cheslett]

David,

A glance at the club website reveals the sensible strategy for the hole...



It looks like a classic risk/reward hole for bigger hitters to me. Land your driver just right and the ball will run onto the green; fall short and you've got a very awkward second shot.

Meanwhile the rest of us take two 7-irons for an easy par. What's not to like?

[Patrick_Mucci]

David,

The 5th at Adios might present such an arrangement.

It's a dogleg left around a lake, almost a right angle, but the green is oriented In a most unusual way.

The ideal angle of attack when the pin is located in the back of the green is attained by laying up with an  iron off the tee.
The distance is greater, but the angle better because a bunker and high mounds guard the right side of the green making an approach from the right, achieved by hitting a driver off the tee, much more difficult.

It represents the opposite of risk/reward in that if you take he risk associated with hitting driver, there's no reward.

I'd reorient the green to reward the more challenging use of driver off the tee

[David Bartman]

Tim,

Why do you need to know where the pin is?  If you don't know, but have played the hole before, deciding to hit driver is risk/reward just like trying to cut the corner over a lake or any other risk/reward decision in golf.  After all, the worst case outcome is that you hit driver, find the pin is cut in the front, and can't stop the ball close.  Presumably it is still possible to two putt, so you are only giving up a birdie chance, not surrendering par.

Doug,

Some of us actually try to plan out the best way to play each hole before we start the hole.  You might try it to lower your scores. 

[Carl Rogers]

hole no. 10 at Riverfront is such a hole.  see my thread from 2011

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php?action=search2

[Patrick_Mucci]

Holes #'s 11, 12, 13, and 16 at  ANGC come to mind

On #'s 13 and 16, when the hole is cut up on the upper plateau
.
However, I think the loss of "movement" in the modern ball makes working the ball or "shaping" a particular shot less of criterion in getting to a particular location.

Hale Irwin told me hat he has to hit or make a more "exaggerated" swing in order to work the ball, and that it's more difficult to achieve a more pronounced ball flight.

[David Ober]

David,

A glance at the club website reveals the sensible strategy for the hole...



It looks like a classic risk/reward hole for bigger hitters to me. Land your driver just right and the ball will run onto the green; fall short and you've got a very awkward second shot.

Meanwhile the rest of us take two 7-irons for an easy par. What's not to like?

I love the hole, but I can't imagine trying to hold a front green position with a 7-iron from a downhill lie. Super tough shot. I think the play is to lay up to 100 and hit a full wedge -- unless one is comfortable with a nipped 30 yard wedge over a bunker to a downhill lie.... :-)

[Patrick_Mucci]

David,

Hogan used to warm up for The Masters by spending time at Seminole.

He regarded the 6th hole as one of the great holes in golf, perhaps because his fade was ideally suited for that hole when the pin was back right.

[Wade Whitehead]

The best par fours require the player to consider the pin position before hitting the tee shot.

WW

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