Streamsong Red (Streamsong, Fl; C&C): all holes up (photos really tuned up!)

[Mark Saltzman]

Mac forgot to mention that he nailed driver-3 wood into the wind to have a 20 foot eagle putt on 2.

Big surprise he liked the hole 

[Tom_Doak]

I'd be interested in Kyle and Tom's thoughts on this, but to me, #3 tee shot is the most visually intimidating on the Red course.  It begs you to hit a fade around the corner which, if executed correctly, catches sort of a speed slot due to the movement of the fairway.  Mark Saltzman hit that speed slot and had a short iron/wedge into the green.  Another element that makes the tee shot demanding is there is zero room right of the fairway, so the safe play is out to the left side of the fairway which can make the hole play medium to long.  The bunker just short and left of the green has a substantial mound on the back that will kick the ball to the back of the green if you try to bump one in short and left.  I found this green difficult to hold, but I was coming in with a 5 iron:)

Frank:

I can't really comment on that tee shot because it's been a long time since I was back on the tee.  It was cut off from the rest of the project for quite a bit of the construction period, and the hole was really only finished this past summer, long after our course was done.  I still have yet to play the first six holes on the Red, although I've got a big match coming up on them in ten days for the Renaissance Cup.

Judging from the photo, I'd say the tee shot is hard because the green is out of sight to the right, you can't tell what's around the corner on that side, and there is definite trouble left so there's no real bail-out.  It looks intimidating, like the only option is to hit a good straight ball, and it's much narrower-looking than most of the other holes.  The only hole which feels similarly narrow on the Blue course is the 13th, but most people are laying up there, anyway.

[Mark Saltzman]

Tom, the intimidation of Red 3 and Blue 13 is not on the same level, especially (as you mention) because few will hit driver on 13.

Depending on the the tees played, it is 210+ carry to reach the width of the fairway, more if you pull it, so you may be forced to challenge the right side.  The right has less room to miss than I expected and even a slight push may run through a bunker to lost ball territory.

[Josh Tarble]

Wow. I was really excited for the blue course after that tour, but the the Red looks amazing and I can't wait for it.

It's amazing that even from pictures both courses seem to have very distinct personalities.

[Bryan Izatt]

Joe, Mac, Frank, Mark,

How far do you guys carry the ball with the driver and which tees were you playing?

For me in Florida at near sea level, it seems I only carry it 210 to maybe 220 yards.  The 3rd hole tee shot looks very daunting from any of the "men's" tees - narrow where I can carry it and very risky with any sort of pull.  The drive plays to the south-west and must be into the wind too a lot of the time too.

So far, I think it looks like a pretty tough start compared to the first three holes on the Blue.

[Ben Kodadek]

Bryan,

There is plenty of room to the left, even from the back two teeing areas.  One can certainly take the big boy line (carry of 260+) and be rewarded with a mid iron in.  However, a shorter hitter should be able to find the fairway without issue if they don't challenge the right side. 

[Mike Sweeney]

So far, I think it looks like a pretty tough start compared to the first three holes on the Blue.

After 3 holes on my first play from the 6600 tees my scorecard was:

6 X X

Second play I would probably hit 3 wood on #2 and play my draw (hook) over the dune on #3 and pray for one time consistency in my game. #2 and #3 are tough shots for a guy who grew up with a cut, but can only hit right to left now.

4-11 is where the course came alive for me.

[Bryan Izatt]

Glad I chose to play Blue in my one round.  I'd hate to be frustrated after three holes by the time I got to the good stuff.

I wonder what the thinking was, to have such an intimidating start on what is a resort course.  It looks like they did some fair earth and pond movement in that area, so I wonder why they could not have provided a bit easier set of tees for the retail golfer.  I can imagine people playing the course for the first time being forgiving of the difficulty because of the "wow" factor.  I'd also imagine that anyone, who is not a good golfer, being frustrated on subsequent attempts when the wow factor has worn off.

[Mark Saltzman]

Despite Mike's X on 2, I think that hole is a very good and interesting hole and not overly difficult. Both times I played the hole I tried to play up the right, knowing a good drive on a bold line would bring the green within reach in 2. Both times, however, I hit big pull-hooks but there is lots. (And lots) of room left.

3 is a daunting tee shot, probably the most difficult and intimidating on property.

[Joe Bausch]

#4.  Par 4.





Really fun little hole here.  Take the centerline bunker out of play for many and drive past it, leaving a dicey short pitch shot to a shallow green, or lay back and potentially bring that bunker more into play.

Tee view:



From short of this beautiful bunker:



From left and short of the green:



From near the back bunker where a front middle pin is quite good to a shiny new flag:   



From left of the green, with the 1st green flag in the background:



That was a wonderful little 2-shotter!

[Mac Plumart]

4 is a really good and interesting golf hole.

But I do want to go back and anwers Brian's question and touch base on some other comments.

Brian, I might carry the ball 230 if I'm hitting it well.  I was striking the ball pretty well the day I was at Streamsong.

And I agree that holes 1-3 are very managable and more mentally intimidating than anything else. 

Mike said he started 6, X, X.  No one in my group started like that.  I went 5 (bogey), 4 (birdie), 6 (double). 

1 is long.  It is a par 5, in de facto playability, but is very playable with a wide fairway.  I found Mark's comments to be pretty darn solid regarding analysis of that hole.

2 has an angled water hazard.  Therefore, it is very managable...but if you get to aggressive, you can get bit HARD.  But this is a plus for the course, not a minus.  Know your game, play the correct tees, make smart decisions.

3 is a really tough tee shot.  Period.  This course does ask you to rise up and hit shots from time to time.  IMO, there is nothing wrong with that...again, I find it a plus.

4 is a really good short par 4.  Great hazard placement.  Interesting green and surrounds.

 

[Scott Weersing]

I was wondering,  where are the cart paths?

I have not seen any in the photos but there must be some place near the greens to park carts.

Do people drive them through the sandy areas?

[Joe Bausch]

I was wondering,  where are the cart paths?

I have not seen any in the photos but there must be some place near the greens to park carts.

Do people drive them through the sandy areas?

No asphalt cart paths on either course; they are sand or in a few places, wood chips.

[Joe Bausch]

#5.  Par 4.





If you have trouble carrying the ball 230+ off the tee, you probably shouldn't be playing this hole from the tips.

Tee view:



From the right part of the fw the approach shot can be intimidating, but there is a nice big mound short and left of the green if you wish to play safe and go left and hope for a bank shot:



From short of the green:



From over the green:



Also don't bother the snakes.     This one is non-poisonous, I'm told.  But I didn't get close enough to ask.



One from the first day to show the little tongues on the right part of the green:

[Mark Saltzman]

Joe, would you call the 5th green a Maiden green?

[Joe Bausch]

Joe, would you call the 5th green a Maiden green?

It was the first time I played it. 

If a Maiden green is b/c it is located at or near the base of a dune, then yes.  But there would then be more than one Maiden green at Streamsong by that definition.

[Mark Saltzman]

Joe, would you call the 5th green a Maiden green?

Joe, why does it not fit the Maiden template?

[Joe Bausch]

Joe, would you call the 5th green a Maiden green?

Joe, why does it not fit the Maiden template?

Give me a, or your (or both), definition(s) of a Maiden green.  That is a term used here frequently w/o ever being clearly defined IIRC.

[Mark Saltzman]

Joe, my understanding was that a Maiden green was one where the front portion was fairly flat and the back portion was characterized by a left and right plateau with a swale between them.  It looks like shoulder-blades.

For example, Maiden at Southampton (as seen from the front):




Which is very similar to the 5th green at SS(Red) with its similar flat front portion and high left and right 'shoulders' (as seen from back-left):

[Ronald Montesano]

shoulders, huh? There's a maiden, then, at Mohawk in Schenectady (#17) and another one at Troy (#9).

[Joe Bausch]

Ok, Mark, maybe the 5th could be Maiden-inspired.

When I played the 18th at Mountain Lake the following day, it did not remind me of the 5th green at SSong Red, but perhaps it could have.

[Joe Bausch]

#6.  Par 3. 

The first of a very nice set of 1-shotters on the Red course.  I've chosen to use the first day pics here as I really like the colors.





On this day with a far left pin, the back tee view just barely shows the flag:



Here is the next tee up view:



From short of the green:



From the back of the green, where on that dune to the right in the pic you can see the walking trail to get up to the back tee on the 7th.



Here's a pic from that dune looking back down:

[Phil McDade]

Joe:

That looks to be one large green on #6; how does it compare to others on the Red?

[Joe Bausch]

Joe:

That looks to be one large green on #6; how does it compare to others on the Red?

One of the bigger ones for sure Phil. 

[Joe Bausch]

#7.  Par 5.





A short climb up that hill by the 6th green leaves this beautiful elevated view of this par 5, which I really think your better players might expect to make 4.

Tee view:



I think this is a hole where it would be very helpful to know the pin position as you'll see on this day where the pin is up.  This is the 2nd shot where you can notice the fw extends right and long of the green, but there is a big ole dune just next to the green on right.  With an up pin, playing to the right and being pin high or even long can leave a very awkward shot.  If playing as a 3 shot hole, lay up short, past that center-line bunker.



Nice view of the short iron 3rd in:



If you tried to reach it in two and favored the right and ended up pin high right, you can barely see the flag even if no more than 15-40 yards away!



From long and left of the green, as well as back of the green showing that pesky dune!





The par 3 8th hole tomorrow morning!