Plea for help advice on inaugural trip to Scotland (please & thank you)

[Jeff Dawson]

If you are going to be in St Andrews get a three day membership at the R&A and play the Old Course every day.

[Carl Johnson]

I have not read the prior suggestions, so there maybe some repeat here.  My recommendations are based on three trips (from USA) to Scotland and one to Ireland in the past 10 years.

Do it yourself - there is no reason to be intiminated.  Best DIY advice I've found is in the book Golf in Scotland, by Allan McAllister Ferguson.  (See disclosure below.)

Stay in one place - I recommend either St. Andrews or Troon - and play courses from that one "base."  There are plenty of great courses accessible from either town (unless you talking about a trip of a month or so).  Don't waste time packing, unpacking, driving around.

Enjoy other things available in the area when you're not on the course - restaurants, pubs, museums, scenery, meeting locals, etc.

Tee times and lodging can be easily researched and booked on the internet, directly with the club/course hotel/inn/B&B.  There is no
need to go through an agent or tour.  (The Old Course is a special case, which I will not go into here.)

Do you want a driver or will you rent a car/van and drive yourself?  For a small group, such as 2 to 4, you can rent the car and drive it yourself.

Note about my travels.  First time we worked with Ferguson, who made suggestions and arrangements for us for a fixed fee per person (very low in 2002).  Second time we did all the planning and arrangements, but Ferguson got us a great driver in Troon (who is no longer living there).  The next two times I did everything myself (one trip to Scotland and one to Ireland).

[Mac Plumart]

+3 on Bradley Golf Travel. 

Also, Crail Balcomie blew me away!!

[Bart Bradley]

Just to clarify for those who are suggesting you book the trip personally--that would definitely save you money compared to using a large tour company like Perry, who charges a mark-up on every aspect of your trip.  Some small tour operators, like my company, will actually save you money.  Here's how: 

For the UK and Ireland, many courses (not all) and nearly all the usual hotels/lodgings offer tour operators a significantly lower "operator rate" than is available to the general public.  On lodging, this is usually 20-30% off the lowest rate available.  On golf courses it is around 10% (although not all courses offer this discount).  Our company gets you the lowest rate available (we will happily show you all of the actual invoices from the vendors) and then charges you a only a 6-8% booking fee (depending on the size of your group).  It doesn't take a genius to figure out that if you are saving more in discounted rates than the booking fee, the trip will actually be cheaper than if you booked it yourself.

Research away.  Figure out where you'd like to go.  Find a reputable tour agent with reasonable rates and ask them to book the trip for you if they offer a plan like that above and you will save significantly.

I had no idea that this could be true until we researched the idea of starting this business. 

Best,

Bart

[jim_lewis]

For sure, take a coat and tie. You will be pleasantly surprised how many places you will be welcomed.

Drive! Chauffers are for wimps.

[Gary Slatter]

Nick, all good advice.  Lots of time for research.  However, if you go with the Dunvegan base, email them for details, ask JACK the owner to put you in touch with John Philp (travel, pro, buddy of Jack) and I'm sure you can set up a great golf experience.  Your guys will probably play with Jack and John and other locals on the Old Course on a Thursday or Saturday.
 
The 3 dAY Package mentioned gives you one round on the Old Course, and one on the New or Jubilee or Eden etc.

To me it's better to play golf more than ride around the country in buses.

cheers

[Bart Bradley]

Gary:

Please clarify which 3 day package you are referring to?  Link?

Bart

[Chris Wirthwein]

Must play courses: (just my opinion - in no particular order)
- Western Gailes (Ayr)
- Prestwick (Ayr)
- N. Berwick (E. Lothian)
- Royal Aberdeen
- Murcar (adjacent to R. Aberdeen)
- Gullane 1 (E. Lothian)
- Brora
- Royal Dornoch
- Turnberry Ailsa
- The Old Course
- Stonehaven (north of St Andrews - not a links, but seaside...on the side of a hill - crazy fun!)

Skip Kingsbarns and any other new course - it's Scotland...you are going the for the history. So play the old courses!

Other stuff:
- take lots of zip lock bags in all sizes and put them in your golf bag. If it rains, nothing will stay dry. Put towels, gloves, keys, wallet, phone, watch, dry socks, etc. in them. You will thank yourself.

- I always take a flimsy, empty nylon gym bag with me. I fill it up with all the stuff I buy and carry it on the planes on the trip home. My luggage has been lost several times, but the exotic golf goodies for me and my golfing buddies always makes it home!

- I've taken to buying durable/permanent items - belts, bag tags, ball markers, sweaters, leather scorcard holders, vests, towels for use as wall hangings, etc. - instead of shirts and hats.

- Stay in B&Bs. You'll likely stay with some very nice people in their homes and get a much better feel for the country and culture. And the full Scottish breakfasts are usually terrific. The Scottish Tourist Bureaus star rating system is very good and predictable. We stay at 3 star or four star B&Bs. 3 stars are nice and 4 stars are really nice. (the first 3 of my six trips I've made, we stayed at 4 star hotels/5 star resorts: Turnberry, Auchterarder House, Old Course Hotel, etc. I much prefer the B&Bs!

- Last three trips, I never booked a tee time in advance. (2 players on two of the trips, 4 players on the other one). We stay a couple of days at a B&B and carry a good map of all the golf courses in Scotland. Sometimes we just stop in if we're driving when we see a course we like. Or maybe we call at the end of the day for the next morning. we almost always end up playing where and when we want.

- drive yourself. it's fun and you get a better feel for things. Keep the steering wheel in the center of the road, just like in the US! That tip alone has made driving a relative breeze. And go around the roundabouts as many times as you need to until you are absolutely sure that's where you want to go. Nothing wrong with taking a few laps vs. making a wrong turn.

- See some castles. I know I you're there for golf, but there are some spectacular sights: Stirling Castle/Wallace monument, Dunottar Castle (in Stonehaven), Doune Castle (where they filmed Monty Python/Holy Grail)

- Last two times at TOC...no tee times and we all played. Didn't do the ballot - just showed up at the starter bright and early and put our names in. We get split up/paired with threesomes, usually. But that's great fun, especially if you get paired with a local. Happened to me 6-7 years ago...my son and I ended up having pints and dinner with the man and he even invited me to join The St Andrews Golf Club...with him as my sponsor. I've been a member for 6+ years and watched The Open Championship from the top floor of the Clubhouse in 2010!

[Mark Chaplin]

Bart - Gary is referring to the winter offer. No need for the St Andrews Links Trust to offer it in season!

[Jud_T]

Sweaters permanent?  One more thing.  Leave the umbrellas at home!  They're of no use in the wind.  Do have very durable high quality rain gear, including rain hat and rain gloves. 

[Niall C]

"When you get over to the West Coast, Troon is last priority. It has four interesting holes and 14 ducks. Plus, the club is run by a bunch of assholes who make no secret of their disdain for Yanks. You might want to play The Portland Course, it is a lot of fun and terribly underrated."

Nick

Don't let Gib's drivel put you off one of the best links courses in Scotland. Possibly because it doesn't have large dunes, ponds or god knows what it clearly isn't to his taste however only on idiot would deny its quality.

Likewise, take a large pinch of salt his comments on professionals v. secretaries. At a lot of courses, the pro's are in charge of the starter sheet (if there is one) and quite able to arrange your round and take your green fee.

The only other thing I would say is that if you're looking to enjoy your apres golf then basing yourself in Edinburgh, Aberdeen or Glasgow might be an option. Clearly more to do and plenty of good golf within travel distance.

Niall

[Jeff Dawson]

I wasn't suggesting a golf or winter golf package.  I am suggesting obtaining a 3 day membership the the R&A.  The R&A will be able to book your times on the Old or any other course you want.  You also get use of the clubhouse for lunch in the dining room and drinks in the Big Room.  The last time I was there we played the Old every day in the morning and also in the afternoon.  One round on the New course.  There is no better way to visit St Andrews.

[Mark Chaplin]

Geoff - R&A membership takes around 8 years, you need a sponsor and two seconders then between 40 and 200 letters of support. That's a tough gig for a 3 day trip. Unless of course your father is called Peter!   

[John Mayhugh]

Geoff - R&A membership takes around 8 years, you need a sponsor and two seconders then between 40 and 200 letters of support. That's a tough gig for a 3 day trip. Unless of course your father is called Peter!   

Haha.

Seriously, Jeff.  Can you elaborate on this three day R&A membership that you recommended? I've never heard of it.  How does one go about doing this?

[Gib_Papazian]

Niall,

When you find someone who thinks Royal Troon has more than four (five is a stretch) outstanding holes, please enlighten me. It is a charmless, "out & back" bore everyone would ignore if Arnold Palmer had not decided to cross the Pond in 1962 and the Postage Stamp is only famous because Sarazen aced it at the age of 71. I cannot think of a single hole at Royal Troon better than the worst hole in the entire Bandon golf complex.

And in my entire life, I've never been treated with such cavalier rudeness by those assholes (let me repeat). Our foursome showed up properly dressed with an advance tee time and were shuffled into a dingy hallway and ordered to change and leave our shoes. The nasty clubhouse manager even had to think about it before letting one of use the bathroom.

We were charged an exorbitant amount of money (far more than quoted) and not even extended the courtesy of buying a pint after we fought the wind all the way in. Just so you know - lest you get an incorrect impression of sour grapes - under the conditions, I played perhaps the finest nine holes of my life on the inward nine.

Monty's charming father was puffing away at a window table and looked at us like four street urchins had crawled in from under a rock. I've been all over the British Isles and NEVER ONCE had an experience even close to the humiliating bullshit we endured. Maybe the behavior of that conceited group of swine has improved in these tough economic times, but I would rather beg Wayne Morrison's forgiveness than set foot on that overrated goat pasture again.

      

      

[Sean_A]

Royal Troon was the first links I ever played.  Contrary to the experience of most who have just finished playing their first time on a links and on a world renowned one at that, my disappointment was bewildering.  The day was very expensive, I had a pre-booked time and the weather was outstanding.  For some reason, a pre-booked time had no meaning.  All the visitors were corralled and told when and with whom they would play. To great annoyance, the "rescheduled" time put me well behind my schedule.  Contrary to Gib's experience, the Postage Stamp remains one of the very best par 3s I have ever played.  That was the only highlight of the day.  I have never gone back and I never will go back.  If a club allows visitors, it should do so with genuine warmth or not at all.  If seeing all the Open venues is a goal, then give Troon a go.  If this isn't the case, give it a miss.  Use that stupidly expensive green fee to but a 1 day flying package to Machrie.


Ciao

[Gary Slatter]

Gary:

Please clarify which 3 day package you are referring to?  Link?

Bart

Bart, Links Trust sells a 3 round package through local hotels during the season, and one round is on the Old.  I've never heard of the 3-day R&A membership.
I agree 100% with Sean about Troon, I'd rather play Prestwick or others in the area.

[Jeff Dawson]

I guess if it has to be explained it doesn't matter. 

Nick - I will pm you details

[Robert Thompson]

Really Jeff? Cause I've never heard of this 3-day offer and I have plenty of friends in the R&A. You've caught my attention. What's the scoop?

[Bart Bradley]

Jeff:

I hope you are well.  I haven't seen you around this site in a while.

Since you posted the information about this opportunity, you must be willing to share it with all of us here.  I know that I and many of our travel business clients would love to understand this option.  It sounds great!  What are the details or how can I find out the details?

Thanks so much for sharing this valuable information,

Bart

[John Kavanaugh]

Talk about killing the golden goose. It reminds me of the time people started bragging about how to play Pebble for free. Let's keep this one under wraps.

Jeff,

I miss your blog. Have you done any other writing lately?

[Jeff Dawson]

Talk about killing the golden goose. It reminds me of the time people started bragging about how to play Pebble for free. Let's keep this one under wraps.

Jeff,

I miss your blog. Have you done any other writing lately?

John - I agree.  Lets keep it under wraps.

[Gib_Papazian]

"When you get over to the West Coast, Troon is last priority. It has four interesting holes and 14 ducks. Plus, the club is run by a bunch of assholes who make no secret of their disdain for Yanks. You might want to play The Portland Course, it is a lot of fun and terribly underrated."

Nick

Don't let Gib's drivel put you off one of the best links courses in Scotland. Possibly because it doesn't have large dunes, ponds or god knows what it clearly isn't to his taste however only on idiot would deny its quality.

Likewise, take a large pinch of salt his comments on professionals v. secretaries. At a lot of courses, the pro's are in charge of the starter sheet (if there is one) and quite able to arrange your round and take your green fee.

The only other thing I would say is that if you're looking to enjoy your apres golf then basing yourself in Edinburgh, Aberdeen or Glasgow might be an option. Clearly more to do and plenty of good golf within travel distance.

Niall

"Drivel"  . . . . . . "Idiot."

Careful With That Axe Eugene, it is not wise to piss into a tent protected by a Paris Gun.  I'm not sure a pin-zippy of your limited comprehension can possibly decipher those twisty historical references, but such are the challenges of grill-room arguments with empty-headed nitwits.

I'll ignore that harmless marshmallow pitched across my bow because you're obviously too stupid or naive to know not to provoke a snot-off with a foul-tempered Hut. Now, put that plastic slingshot back in your knickers before I break off a piece of your tibia and rearrange your vital organs.

Royal Troon is a piece of shit. Perhaps if the Postage Stamp was airlifted and replaced the original Short at TOC, I would not scream heresy and maybe like it better. I'll grant you that one point out of 18 holes. Past that, the rest of the golf course is lifeless and marginal at best. The Portland is a far more interesting study and the members who frequent the course (including some delightful and dignified Scottish gals) are far more agreeable company than the harrumphing pukes who haunt the main clubhouse sipping gin in their woolen undies.

I'm not going to debate you on the merits of Troon because my only intention was to rescue our Treehouse brethren from the same proctoscopic relief of their hard-earned ducats we suffered at the hands of a bunch of imperious greedheads.

Now, be a good lad and retract and expunge your twaddle from this august Discussion Group before someone in authority sends you and the helium between your ears back to a chat room where you belong.  
        
  
      

[John Kavanaugh]

Gib,

If you are the smartest man in the room we should be able to figure that out without you telling us three times a day.

[Mark Chaplin]

Gib - staff change, that's all I can say on that. Plus the green fees have dropped considerably during the past couple of years despite the summers selling out to visitors long in advance. I will say the Postage Stamp is one of the world's finest holes.

One can only blame the - majority - US tourist market for the experiences some of you had at RT. Golfers blindly book the headline courses paying whatever the club demands and turn up in bus after bus to tick off another course. Golfers aren't interested in absorbing the history and culture of the clubs before racing off to the next assignment. It's no wonder the members have no interest in them other than the cash.

Where the niche small operators like Bart come into their own is directing golfers to the smaller friendlier clubs where you won't find the Perry buses and yanks in rupert bear trousers. Spend the full day at these clubs, have lunch and be surprised what opens up before you.

Jeff - please pm me the perfect plan, fortunately I don't need to use it so the secret is safe with me.