News:

This discussion group is best enjoyed using Google Chrome, Firefox or Safari.


Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0


Route9 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

View from the tee.



Depression to be carried with the tee shot. Former bunker?



View towards the green.



View towards the green, fronting bunker and hole directional sign post in view.



Fairway bunker complicating preferred approach from the right.



Bunker that prevents running the second shot straight onto the green.



Green from left side. This side approach guarded by sea rushes.



Left side green view from side showing the narrowness of the green (lack of depth) for incoming direct approaches.



Left side green view from side showing the contours of the green.



Hole directional sign post behind the green.



One more view from the left side.



View from right side showing narrowness of green. Reaching in two would be done by running it in on this side.



« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 08:24:59 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Jud,
The beach is OB. Though you really don't see it in the pictures, on the other side of the dune there is a nice and well-used walking path between the course and the beach.


Garland,
The left side of 7 green is a safer play, especially with the huge sleepered bunker on the right.  The green has more slope than the photos show, and the slope on the right side can feed balls towards the large bunker.  This hole is the first real encounter with the sea rushes and they are pretty easily avoided.

The tee shot on 8 has to carry more rushes, but the carry distance is probably no more than 120 yards to get past them. 

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
The 9th here really deserves a thread of its own.  It's a fantastic short par 5, maybe 490 yards, that I think normally plays downwind.

The tee shot has to contend with sea rushes on the left and needs to carry a huge depression. The carry is less than 200 yards, but looks more daunting, especially after you've seen a few sea rushes in there.  The fairway is HUGE.  There's a fairway bunker about 80 yards from the green, adding a bit of concern to a layup.  But with the hole playing downwind, you're bound to be tempted to go at the green.  The green is wide, but shallow - maybe 20 yards deep.  Short of the green is a huge bunker (anytime there are steps going down, beware).  You can see from one of the pictures that there is a white stone short of the green.  These are used in many places to point out bunkers that might be invisible from where the player stands. 

Hitting the green with your second shot probably requires you to use the mounds on the right side of the green to sling the ball towards the surface.  That or you can bounce one over the bunker.  The shallow green is also divided by a large spine running front to back, so hitting the green doesn't guarantee a good putt.

One of my favorite par 5s.

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
As noted earlier in the thead, #9 is a hole Tom Doak proposed as a hole he would like to use as a template. Does anyone know of a place where Tom used it?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0


Route10 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

View from the tee where you must drive over the great sea rushes to reach the fairway.



White stone marks bunkers that might be difficult to locate from a distance. In this case they are on the right hand side to add some drama to the safe side when it comes to avoiding the rushes.



Once over the rushes from the tee, they extend up the left hand side of the hole. They make a brief appearance on the right too.



I suppose this is looking back at a pole used to give a line for players on the tee who wouldn't be able to see much fairway.



Approaching the green.



Bunker in front of the green.



View from behind the green.



View from left of green looking towards holes 5 and 6.



There is a picture here that for some reason isn't displaying for me.



The rushes up close.




« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 08:30:07 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0


Route11 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

View from the tee. A see of rushes.



The approach shot. The green fronting bunkers showing a slight rise above the ground mid frame or so.



A look back at the restricted space you have to drive into, with rushes on either side.



Approaching the green.



Closer.



Green from the front.



Green from the left.



Green from the back showing the bowling alley that has just been traversed with score preventing gutters on each side.



« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 08:31:49 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Westward Ho is definitly one of my favourites – it still has the sheep fences like Brora. The high sea rushes are one of the many special features there, however the wild undulations from the 2nd to the 8th  defy imitation, and in a strong Atlantic gale (more often than not) makes for an adventurous game of golf.

One encounters the sea rushes on the 9th as a benign hazard on the inside of a dogleg before being confronted with them on the 10th with a blind shot over a sea of them. Devon’s answer to scottish Gorse. If you lose your ball and go searching you can get lost in the maze.. Patric Dickinson in his entertaining book « A round of Golf Courses », published in 1950 describes the sea rushes - «They stand up to the shoulder thick and bushy like clumps of giant shaving brushes ; they are mildly poisoned-tipped, and you may have to question which is the  worse : to get into them, or to get them into you. » He goes on « Around and about among them weave a race of furtive men whose dogs, more efficient than any radioactive detector, may find your lost ball. »

When I was there I also saw «furtive men with dogs » retrieving golf balls from the sea rushes. A cultural practice being passed down through the centuries – maybe through selective breeding a « Golden Laborador Golfball Retriever » can be developed that can identify Titleist Pro Vx’s  and is garanteed not to leave bite marks and more importantly ignore golf balls currently in play. :D

"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Any tips on how to read the greens here? They were without doubt the most difficult surfaces I've ever encountered. The greens seemed to have settled in different areas; there is no overall break that is consistent across the whole putting surface. It also appears they do not top dress, which certainly tends to homogenize the way a green breaks. Is this trait comendable? It must give the RND squad a tremendous home court advantage.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Westward Ho! is not concerned with "fair."  Except for lengthening the course (now at almost 7000 yards for special tourneys) it is virtually unchanged since Fowler did his magic there almost 100 years ago.
Number 10 is a dogleg left that is bordered by the sea rushes down the left.  The tee shot is blind over the sea rushes and begs the player to bite off as much as he dares.
Number 11 is dead straight with sea rushes both left and right.  It is about 400 yards long and is the most intimidating
you could ask for.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
John:  If you are headed to St. Enodoc, Westward Ho! is pretty much right on the way there.  And DEFINITELY worth a stop, although I am sure some people are disappointed by how featureless it looks to the eye.  It's a real study in golf architecture.  The holes through the rushes ARE penal but on most of the rest you can hit it anywhere and still be in the hole.

...
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0


Route12 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

View from the tee, again needing to carry sea rushes on the drive.



Bunker making the safe route more interesting.



View towards the green.



Green.



Green from the right side.





Route13 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

More livestock tracks.



View from the tee. Looks like you can drive it anywhere.



Well anywhere but the fairway bunkering.



This is marked as a bunker, but doesn't appear to be one. Perhaps this is where the green chairman hits his drives so it is grown in until the next green chairman restores it. ;)



If you are going to run the long shot in you best keep it from getting offline left



and right.



If you are going to have a 440 yard par 5, then the green best repel long shots, and require accuracy of the short shots by being raised up.











« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 08:35:44 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
...  Royal North Devon may have one of the most unusual par fives in the world.   #13 is only 442 yards long.  It is one of the shortest par fives I have played.  It follows a 423 yard par four.  Every time I step up to the tee, I am thinking birdie.  Getting there in two is no problem.  Getting on the green in two is.  The green is diabolical with its humps, bumps and turns.  Even chipping requires a deft touch.  Five is a good score.  Yet, on some score cards it is listed as a par four.  Same course same distance, one par 72 and one par 73.

Par fives give the designer and player the most options of an hole on the course.  Length does not alway determine par either.  The 13th hole at Royal North Devon is only 440 yards long.  Reaching it is a piece of cake.  The green is a bugger.  Five is an acceptable score.  Nine at RND has another relatively  short par five.  You can hit the tee ball almost anywhere but beware the second and third shot.  It may be one of the worlds great par fives. (read Ran's or Doak's write up).

There can be risk rewards on the first, secon, or third shots.  It is difficult to design four beauties, but when you have played a great par five it is rewarding.  Too many of them are just long slogs.  Number one at RND is like that.

Note: with the burn on #1, I don't think it would be a slog, but rather a bit of a challenge in second shot placement. Although I haven't played RND, you can see by the earlier post that John M has and agrees with that sentiment.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2013, 11:06:05 AM by GJ Bailey »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0


Route14 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

View from the tee. Once again sea rushes to carry.



Approaching the green.



Views of the green.





« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 08:39:41 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0


Route15 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

View from the back tee that has been set across the road running next to the hole.



View from the tee used in the Google Earth view of the hole route.



Views from the fairway.





Sheep on the course. I actually hadn't noticed the white spots on the Google Earth view, which are probably sheep, until after I saw these next pictures.







Approaching the green with the local rule free drop fairway fertilizer in view.



View of green with hole sign post in view. It occurs to me that we are used to seeing signs and poles for blind shots, but that is not the case here. It seems to me that some of the greens on this course must lay so naturally with the land that it is difficult to find them by scanning the horizon.



View back at the hole from behind the green.



View of the green while headed to the 16th tee.


« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 08:41:18 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0


Route16 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

View from the tee.



Approaching green.



Right side bunker and green.



View of fourth fairway from the green.



View from behind the green looking back up the hole.



View from left of green.



« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 08:43:10 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0


Route17 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr

View from the tee.



Views from fairway.





Road fronting green.





Green views.







Route18 by Garland Bayley, on Flickr
View from tee.



Views of fairway.





Burn fronting green.



Green.



« Last Edit: November 22, 2017, 08:45:54 PM by Garland Bayley »
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Catching up with some comments:

10 - This is the first real trouble spot with the sea rushes.  As you can see from the aerial photo, it's important to select a line and how much you want to carry. The bunkers on the outside of the dogleg are within easy range of the tee, so to hit driver you need to carry a lot of the rushes, which isn't a real comfortable tee shot.  Hitting at the directional pole requires around a 200 yd carry.

11 - The rushes make this tee shot even more intimidating than the 10th.  The fairway is pretty wide but you don't feel that way on the tee.  Like the tenth, the hole is only in the 370yd range, so it's not critical to hit driver.  It's a tough approach, with deep bunkers in front of the green and a green that slopes away from you.  Like many of ODGs, Fowler was fond of front to back sloping greens - something I wish we saw more of with modern courses.

12 - More rushes on this hole, but after 180 or so yards from the tee the right side is wide open.  Well, except for the huge sleepered bunker on the right.  It's a little over 200 yards to carry it.  You need to be careful about straying too far right, though, as there are bunkers between you and the hole (not really visible in the pictures - sorry), and carrying them will make it hard to hold the front to back sloping green.

13 - After contending with all the rushes, now we get seemingly easy 440 yard par 5.  No problem with rushes - just some huge bunkers to avoid.  Going for the green seems like a good possibility, but there are bunkers that narrow the entrance to the green.  More significant is the tiny, elevated green.  I imagine this would be very hard to hold with conditions firm and windy.

14 - A long par 3, with a few sea rushes in sight, but mostly out of play.  The green is surrounded by bunkers short and on the side, but if you hit your tee shot long enough you can avoid all of the bunkers.  Long or left shots will run downhill away from the green.  There is a large ridge on the right side of the green.

I'll comment on the remaining holes later.

It's really a shame that this course tour has drawn so little interest.  I realize it doesn't photograph all that well, but it's a real joy to experience.  Good enough for Doak to include as one of his "gourmet's choice" courses.

Jim Sherma

  • Karma: +0/-0
Very interesting to see this tour. Westward Ho! has always intrigued me, from the antiquity to the name. It certainly does not photograph well and it is very difficult to get a feel for how one would play it. I look at these pictures and really feel like I have no idea what set of shots is being asked for in order to properly play many of the holes. It looks both straightforward and very difficult at the same time. Many of the vistas remind me a little of the bleak flatness of some parts of Dingle Links in Ireland. There were some shots there that I had a very difficult time having any comfort level with where I was really aiming and how far away anything was.

I have little doubt that I would appreciate the course in person and also that it would reward multiple plays. Another trip that I will have to make some day.

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
It's really a shame that this course tour has drawn so little interest.  I realize it doesn't photograph all that well, but it's a real joy to experience.  Good enough for Doak to include as one of his "gourmet's choice" courses.

Tucky

For me the rushes are a make or break deal.  While I respect the uniqueness of the rushes in the same way I respect Hoylake's opener, I don't care for these holes.  Add in many other flat and sometimes sloppy areas and Westward Ho! doesn't make the grade for me.  I still think everybody should see the course not only because of the rushes and one or two other truly outstanding holes, but also because the club is a gem.  There should be a mandatory Westward Ho! tax on all golfing tourists landing in one of England's airports.  The money should be sent directly to Westward Ho! and the visitor supplied with a ticket for one free (how is that government talk - tee hee) green fee - regardless if he intends to visit the club. The same should apply for Painswick and Kington - its entirely reasonable and justified tax.

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield & Alnmouth,

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
I agree with some of the sentiments above...I'm not sure whether I am clamoring to play WHo! or whether I am turned off.

It seems to be a course that demonstrates "GCA 101" in a unique way.

In putting together a preliminary 2014 or 2015 Wales/England trip I had thought to include WHo! for sure...but I'm not sure whether my less architecturally-inclined family members would be so happy being out of the dunes at a place like WHo!, regardless of its pedigree and importance.

I see subtlety and interest, but it almost seems like the anti-links...the ultimate in minimalism with few features to draw upon.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
... being out of the dunes at a place like WHo!...

I am wondering what you mean by this. Holes 1 & 18? Holes like 9, 10, 11, 12?
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Glad to see a few comments on the course.  I'll try to add some thoughts on the rest of the holes sometime tomorrow and then, for how little it's worth, try to make a sales pitch for Westward Ho! 

Brad,
I can understand your apprehension about taking people to the course.  I have some friends that might love it and some that wouldn't care for it at all. 

Sean,
That's the most sensible tax policy suggestion I've heard in some time.   As for the rushes, I didn't mind them too much.  The 11th is a bit uncomfortable, but I played 54 there with the same ball, so if I can do that they cannot be that unreasonable. 

Jim,
One of the things that, I think , works so well there is the amount of discomfort some of the seemingly wide open shots create.


Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
...
Jim,
One of the things that, I think , works so well there is the amount of discomfort some of the seemingly wide open shots create.



Even Jack Nicklaus has related how playing in such an environment necessitated relearning how to target shots even after he became a successful pro.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Brad Tufts

  • Karma: +0/-0
... being out of the dunes at a place like WHo!...

I am wondering what you mean by this. Holes 1 & 18? Holes like 9, 10, 11, 12?


Don't get me wrong, I'd love to check out the course, but I'm a huge GCA nerd.

My Dad and brother would probably be happier at a place with wild, crazy movement with big dunes that hit you over the head with interest.  To them, a more subtle golf course might get boring.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
15 - A long par 4 with plenty of room off the tee.  Right of the fairway are some depressions with more rushes in them, but this area is easily avoided.  The rushes you see in the tee shot photos are a very short carry (under 100 yds, probably) but the flatness of the fairway makes it harder to tell.  The hole is long enough that I had to bounce my approaches in, and the safer play left off the tee makes this more difficult.  If you look at the first photo showing the green (where Garland refers to fertilizer), you can see how the bunker 50 yards short of the green is built up in the back.  From the fairway, bunkers like this have a strong visual effect as they impact depth perception.  This was probably very effective in the pre-yardage book/rangefinder/GPS watch days.  Garland makes a good observation about the need for signposts behind greens to be sure you hit the right way, even though shots are all that blind.

16 - A nice par3 that I played at about 150 yards.  The crowned green is ringed by four bunkers, and slopes do a fine job of feeding balls into them.  This was a much tougher tee shot the second time I played the hole after I realized how much trouble I could get into.  The camera doesn't do some of these bunkers justice.

17 - The longest of the par 5s. About 80 yards short of the green, a road to the beach passes cuts across the fairway at an angle.  The road is played as an integral part of the course and there is a ditch on either side of the road.  There is a grassy ditch on either side of the fairway and both are reachable with well-struck tee shots. For most of us, the road will be too much too carry, so you have to lay up to the right distance.  There are a few depressions in the layup area that you need to avoid or else you might have an awkward lie for your approach.  The green has a spine across the middle, so short approaches can roll back off the front and ones that land on the back of the green will run off the back. 

18 - The last is a 400+ yard par 4 with a burn along the right side.  Not much strategy to the tee shot, but since you have to hit your approach over the burn you will be tempted to get a little extra out of the tee shot.  The green has two tiers, and it's tough to get all the way to the back hole location.  Playing in March, this fairway was sort of soggy, so the approach with a long club was doubly tough. 


Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back