[PCCraig]

Thank you very much for your response Patrick...very helpful!

[JMEvensky]

PGert,thanks for typing that.

A few years ago,the USGA Turfgrass Section posted a paper where they tried to make the argument that NOT removing trees was actually more expensive.From memory,they cited about $200,000 in annual costs directly attributable to care and feeding of an "average"over-treed golf course.

Is there any way you can put a dollar figure on any cost savings from your tree removal?

[Carl Nichols]

Mike -

The Olympic Club's Lake Course has made a good start on tree thinning & removal. I just wish they would finish the job!

Sorry, no pictures.

DT

Google is your friend, a nice video piece on Olympic's tree removal:

http://www.golf.com/video/tree-removal-opens-lake-course-olympic-club

and a piece by Dunlop:

http://fhfcgreendepartment.blogspot.com/2012/06/olympic-club-and-trees.html

What snow-capped peaks are those?

[PGertner]

Not sure of actual $$ maintenance savings due to the tree program. Believe me, we have no problem spending all the dollars that are allocated to my department... 

Our maintenance budget has risen and fallen in my eight years here depending on the membership number, but when the dollars were fewer it wasn't due to fewer trees. I will say, however, that our condition has usually exceeded member expectations, except during 2011 and 2012 when devastating disease gray leaf spot hit fairways and roughs....

Certainly, our overall condition is better today after listening to accounts from long time members and employees. If trees were still the preferred plant at Potowomut, I am sure we would be chasing our tail on many maintenance fronts....from lack of a root system, wet conditions, disease, winter damage, tree roots, and underperforming golf surfaces due to shade. 

I believe a clearer financial picture is to look at our situation from a different perspective. Without massive tree removals, I am not sure our club would be standing in 2013. Members today won't join a private club that isn't in excellent condition each time they come to play, and I can't picture this formerly grossly overplanted golf course attracting or holding many members in its previous state. 

Patrick Gertner
Potowomut Golf Club
East Greenwich, RI

[RDecker]

There is a good article in the February issue of Men's Journal detailing the message of a new book by Jim Sterba, an environmentalist who has now changed his tune.  The article outlines how most people in the know are saying that all of our natural resources here in the U.S. and particularly the eastern part of the country have been over protected and under managed and that Trees may be the biggest example of this.
The article says essentially that we've become over forested and we need to do something about it soon.  Problem is that years of neglect and increased cost of management has made this a bigger problem than most, be they mucipalities, home owners... can undertake easily and golf courses are no exception. 

[Jason Walker]

Mike,

In addition to Cricket, other Philly courses - LuLu, Manny's and Sunnybrook, among others- can be listed.

Manny's is probably the most dramatic tree removal improvement in the Philly area.

At Tavistock, the tree work over the last eight years has been in the 1000's and is continuing in earnest as we speak.  We've identified several larger forested areas for removal this winter, as well as beginning to implement a plan to remove every last one of the pines planted in the early 70's.

We're also dealing with bacterial leaf scorch which is forcing the removal of many of our oaks; unfortunately some of them were really nice, majestic trees, and have been $$$ to remove given their size and location.

[Doug Wright]

Minikahda

Correct, Jason and to very good effect--this was done as part of the Ron Prichard (Ross) restoration plan in the mid 2000s.  I think the # of trees removed was 700 or so. The overall change from the restoration and tree removal at Minikahda was remarkable.

My home course Denver Country Club has been doing a lot of tree removal the past 2-3 years, and more is being done this winter. Our superintendent has been able to convey the importance of light on greens and other playing surfaces, and I think Gil Hanse did the same as part of the bunker restoration/renovation project he undertook in 2011. As an opponent of Stupid Trees (Chipoat tm), I'm excited for the changes and the results are tangible.

[JMEvensky]

 

I believe a clearer financial picture is to look at our situation from a different perspective. Without massive tree removals, I am not sure our club would be standing in 2013. Members today won't join a private club that isn't in excellent condition each time they come to play, and I can't picture this formerly grossly overplanted golf course attracting or holding many members in its previous state. 

Patrick Gertner
Potowomut Golf Club
East Greenwich, RI

This,IMO,is an amazing conclusion for the average member to draw.In my part of the world,the members also want perfect playing conditions.But they refuse to understand,or don't care about, the impact over-treeing has on the golf course.At the end of the day,most members would rather have the trees.

[Patrick_Mucci]

PGert,

Thanks, those are interesting and informative posts.

[JMEvensky]

PGert,

Thanks, those are interesting and informative posts.

What he said.

[Jason Walker]

 

I believe a clearer financial picture is to look at our situation from a different perspective. Without massive tree removals, I am not sure our club would be standing in 2013. Members today won't join a private club that isn't in excellent condition each time they come to play, and I can't picture this formerly grossly overplanted golf course attracting or holding many members in its previous state. 

Patrick Gertner
Potowomut Golf Club
East Greenwich, RI

This,IMO,is an amazing conclusion for the average member to draw.In my part of the world,the members also want perfect playing conditions.But they refuse to understand,or don't care about, the impact over-treeing has on the golf course.At the end of the day,most members would rather have the trees.

It's a crazy conclusion, but you're right---even when shown in-play forested areas that are completely dirt and root covered, most members choose the trees.  But then the next day complain about hitting a ball off-line and being forced to play off---yes, you guessed it---dirt and tree roots.

[PGertner]

Regarding our membership's thoughts on our tree removals....

Obviously, all removals have not been embraced by all members. Prior myself and my predecessor's (current Sand Ridge Supt Brent Palich) arrival at Potowomut, many greens failed and the golf course was entirely closed to golf during fall 2003. The Club lost many members and hundreds of thousands of dollars. Greens were quickly re-established by Brent.....but for a few months members were paying monthly dues for a golf course that was in shambles and unavailable for golf. 

Thankfully for me and for the betterment of their golf course, the membership has a long memory and is still quite receptive of any ideas for improvement. This attitude has allowed us to continue improvements (and tree work) through today.

No doubt without the golf course disaster of 2003, member attitude about 2300+ tree removals would probably be different. However, the degree of overpopulation here was so egregious, disaster would have occurred at some later date.

Patrick Gertner
Potowomut Golf Club
East Greenwich, RI
 

[Jason Walker]

As I mentioned earlier, we're doing quite a bit of work at Tavistock this winter.  One area that is being deforested is an ugly collection of evergreens, hollys, cedars, and sweet gums between our 3rd green and 8th tee.  In fact, this area contains (or contained) what could easily be considered the ugliest tree on our golf course.

I was out on the course a week and a half ago driving my 3 year old son around on the golf cart.  We saw some deer near the area of trees being removed so I snapped a few photos for my daughter.  The aforementioned ugly tree had been about 50% limbed prior to its demise.  Well, I went to the men's grill later that evening and a couple of members stopped me to inquire about the tree removal and what the plans were for the winter.  Expecting another discussion dealing with why we're removing all the trees,  I was shocked when they began lobbying me about keeping the limbed-up pine!   In all seriousness--"it's a cool looking tree.....never noticed it before....looks unique now that the limbs are gone....looks great all by itself out there."  I'm still cracking up about it.

I'll let the treehouse decide, but pictures of said tree are below.

[David Stamm]

Los Angeles CC North has cleared quite a bit, and it has made a tremendous difference. The scale of the course was already "brawney", and the efforts have only enhanced that perception. Supposedly there is even more planned. What a course...

[PCCraig]

Patrick G,

Do you happen to have any before and after pictures of your tree work? Would love to see the results of your good work.

Thanks!

[Mac Plumart]

Seeing photos of Southampton is impressive.

[Mike Sweeney]

Seeing photos of Southampton is impressive.

Forgot to include this series of Southampton from an old thread:

Here is the 12th hole over the years via Dr Gene:

1925


2004


2012

[Doug Wright]

Wow that is some impressive tree removal at Southampton!

[Gene Greco]

Wow that is some impressive tree removal at Southampton!

Doug:

Southampton Golf Club has undergone a remarkable transformation.

Hopefully, you will give me a buzz when you're out this way and you may experience it in person!

Afterall, it's been a while.


        Gene

[Doug Wright]

Wow that is some impressive tree removal at Southampton!

Doug:

Southampton Golf Club has undergone a remarkable transformation.

Hopefully, you will give me a buzz when you're out this way and you may experience it in person!

Afterall, it's been a while.       Gene

Indeed it has Gene! Hope all is well.

[Leo Barber]

Paraparaumu Beach, New Zealand, has been addressing their vegetation issues since the early 2000s.  A large amount of exotics either planted or self seeded had gradually infected the look and feel of this links.

Whilst they didn't necesarily all affect play they certainly detracted from this wonderful linksland by choking out the native vegetation, limiting surrounding vistas, covering majestic dune structures, affecting turf quality and simply doing little to enhance the course.

For years Open winners Thompson and Charles who had also won Opens locally, espoused the virtues of vegetation management.  The photos below go someway towards showing that evolution and in many ways the vegetation is being returned to a period even before the development of this 1949 links.

1957



1982



2012

[Sean_A]

Jeepers, Paraparaumu Beach should pay as much attention to their rough lines.  That bottom photo demonstrates one of the worst cut lines imaginable.  The negative visual impact is incredible.

Ciao

[Joe Sponcia]

Seeing photos of Southampton is impressive.

Forgot to include this series of Southampton from an old thread:

Here is the 12th hole over the years via Dr Gene:

1925


2004


2012

Mike, Very impressive.  Thanks for including that.

In my area (East TN), Holston Hills and Cherokee have both done pretty extensive tree removal.  I have many before and afters of Holston.  I am trying to get the B and A of Cherokee now.  Chattanooga CC cleaned up quite a bit after Bill Bergin restored it several years ago.  I have been working on a top 50 club pictorial...and by my estimates, 75% of those in the top 100 have either been restored or have never been drastically altered (or allowed to be turned into bowling alleys).  Allowing those that cross their arms and say, 'but that's great for them but we love our trees' to see what the rest of the top clubs are doing is on one hand good, but the other hand, they STILL don't get it.  Width=easy when you are arguing with a 24 handicap.

[Bruce Leland]

Note: response to an old thread...Several years ago I played Monroe CC as an unaccompanied guest and when the Head Professional introduced himself he thereafter proceeded to inform me that they had recently taken 400 trees down.  I remember thinking "now that is progress when the Golf Pro is a proponent and vocal advocate of the tree removal program!"

[Chris Hans]

1,400+ at Vesper Country Club from 07-10.

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