We-Ko-Pa Saguaro course profile is posted

[Ran Morrissett]

Those halcyon days of golf and more golf eventually fade when kids, dogs, guinea pigs etc. join the fray. Now I might be lucky to see fifteen new courses a year, a great amount to some and a paltry sum to others. Nonetheless, each visit to a new course needs to matter, especially because I travel with the intent to profile courses for this website.

During a recent trip to Arizona, I was especially impressed by both Desert Forest and the Saguaro Course at We-Ko-Pa. Architects usually have to create man-made hazards to lend playing interest to inland/parkland courses play. That’s much less true when the beguiling desert surrounds each playing corridor. As counterintuitive as it seems, the desert is conducive to good golf.  Consider its virtues: skies of a scale entirely unfamiliar to us east coasters, long views unimpeded by trees, natural hazards of a fierce nature, and a genuine connection with nature. Wow – am I talking about Scotland?!

My visceral response to the desert golf was so intense that it made me wonder: Was I overreacting/too excited?

One benefit of working with photos and scripting a course profile for 15-20 hours is that it forces you to mull over the X’s and O’s.  It also creates a cooling down period and nothing dampens enthusiasm better than the crucible of time (save for perhaps a dusty and barren beverage cabinet  ). Having said that, no tempering occurred and I remained - dare I use the word - ebullient!

So ... I started checking around with a few well-traveled folks for their perspective. The gent with the strongest opinion was Bill Schulz. He lives in Arizona, has played the Golf Magazine World Top 100 lists since 2001,  seen numerous other gems worldwide, and is thoroughly familiar with the best in his home state. Most relevant to this profile, Bill has played the Saguaro Course at We-Ko-Pa Golf Club over 100 times. That’s important, as I am loath to make a dogmatic determination after going around a course only three times, as I did at We-Ko-Pa. I have played five courses 100 or more times (the 3 courses at CC of Virginia, Southern Pines GC, and Newcastle in Australia). That experience confirms that warts and all are exposed after 100 rounds!

So after that brief intro I reprint Bill’s thoughts with his permission:

We-Ko-Pa Saguaro is my favorite golf course in Arizona and the best truly public (no resort or college affiliation) course in the United States. I say that with a confidence developed after playing over 100 rounds there. Desert Forest is an iconic and innovative desert design; Forest Highlands (my home club) is a spectacular course in Arizona’s high country (Doak gave it an 8 in the original Confidential Guide); and Estancia is the most visually arresting desert course (Stone Canyon is a close 2nd) with an eminently walkable routing. However, Coore and Crenshaw’s  dramatic inclusion of many half par holes (4 par 4s under 336 yards, three par 4s over 470 yards, a short and monster par 5 on the scorecard and par 3s ranging from 137 to 255 yards) make We- ko-Pa one of the most elastic designs in the world. There are short, potential birdie (even eagle for the scratch golfer) holes fraught with danger as well as holes of epic length that demand a golfer’s perseverance and imagination to conquer. One can enjoy the Saguaro with both high handicap beginners from Denver and earnest young pros striving for Q school because of the generous width of the fairways. Coore’s wonderful design philosophy that enables a round of golf with just one golf ball is within reach with a little bit of luck and without the frustration of regularly looking for errant golf balls (and rattlesnakes). My favorite aspect of the Saguaro is the magic of playing a round of golf (without any homes or other development) first thing in the morning with my bag over my shoulder. I try not to laugh (or shake my head!) at cartballers who walk 25 yards back to their cart after putting out on the 1st green , drive 40 yards ahead and then walk 15 yards back to the second tee; we walkers simply take a few steps off the rear of the 1st green onto the next tee. Coore’s thoughtful routing takes you to all corners of the property and the next tee usually lies only a few paces from the previous green. Each and every round at We-Ko-Pa Saguaro soars with infinite possibilities!

Strong words, and one can surmise that Saguaro Course possesses the ingredients to engender an intense connection. Few courses are capable of producing such passion and those that do will always be heralded on this website. We-Ko-Pa (Desert Forest too) is such a course, so we are particularly delighted to add its profile to the Courses by Country section. The stage was set for Coore & Crenshaw to produce something special as they had expansive acreage with interesting land forms without the hindrance of a real estate component. Plus, they really enjoyed their interaction with Ed Francese, the Saguaro Project Manager for the Yavapai Indians of Fort McDowell. Overall, it was a fun project for all concerned and that enjoyment bubbles through into the final product.
 Different setting to be sure than some of C&C’s famous private Northeast ones but just as special a design sharing the same core values.

Joe Passov apparently has just re-reviewed the Saguaro Course elsewhere and I am anxious to find that article to see what he has to say. Knowing him as I do, I’d be shocked if it wasn’t along the same glowing lines as Bill.

Have a look at this profile and tell me what you think. Though my playing experience in the desert is limited, I was mesmerized. The question that resonates with me is: What more could you POSSIBLY hope for from golf in the desert?!

Cheers,

[A.G._Crockett]

My answer to your last question is, "Nothing!"

I've made a couple of trips to Scottsdale and have played a pretty good sampling of the courses in the area.  By far and with little else even close, Saguaro is my favorite.  It is, IMO, a brilliant design.

We played it after we had played Cholla earlier in the day, and I really like Cholla.  I'd consider that to be a 36 hole day to rival pretty much anything.  I rode Saguaro because we were in the desert, playing 36, and my buddies just ride, but it is such a great routing that I regretted it immediately.  I hope to go back this spring or next and walk it, but either way I would consider it to the THE must play in the entire area among the public access courses.

As far as C&C courses  that I've gotten to play, I liked Saguaro far better than I liked the Dormie Club and consider it to be the equal Cuscowilla.  I believe that if I played Saguaro as many times as I've played Cuscowilla, I would likely elevate it above Cuscowilla, but I need to see it at least once more before I jump off that bridge.

[Matthew Petersen]

I thought it was a wonderful write-up, and I appreciate and completely agree with Bill's thoughts as well.

I've played nearly every public course in this state along with a handful of private clubs, and there's no desert course I like better than WeKoPa Saguaro. It's all i would want out of a golf course anywhere, and it does as good a job of any course I've played of minimizing the problems with desert golf by using width, while maintaining a sense of challenge by offering the ability to skirt the natural hazards to gain an advantage.

[Matthew Petersen]

My answer to your last question is, "Nothing!"

I've made a couple of trips to Scottsdale and have played a pretty good sampling of the courses in the area.  By far and with little else even close, Saguaro is my favorite.  It is, IMO, a brilliant design.

We played it after we had played Cholla earlier in the day, and I really like Cholla.  I'd consider that to be a 36 hole day to rival pretty much anything.  I rode Saguaro because we were in the desert, playing 36, and my buddies just ride, but it is such a great routing that I regretted it immediately.  I hope to go back this spring or next and walk it, but either way I would consider it to the THE must play in the entire area among the public access courses.

As far as C&C courses  that I've gotten to play, I liked Saguaro far better than I liked the Dormie Club and consider it to be the equal Cuscowilla.  I believe that if I played Saguaro as many times as I've played Cuscowilla, I would likely elevate it above Cuscowilla, but I need to see it at least once more before I jump off that bridge.

AG,

I agree that Cholla is also a wonderful design, if about as different in style as any desert course could be (which is a great thing for WeKoPa, as it works out). One thing that recommends both courses very highly and is unique amongst so many other tracks in Arizona is the lack of housing. This is true of the other "rez" courses in town, too, but none of the others (Talking Stick, Wildhorse) feel as secluded and natural as WeKoPa does.

To anyone who has played Talking Stick North and been impressed with what C&C could do with that flat desert site, you really must see Saguaro. It's got all that C&C brilliance but on a piece of land that's spectacular in its own right.

[Alex Miller]

See the rake? It is not misplaced but was positioned there to highlight the slight mound that Ben Crenshaw concocted. The golfer can use this knob to kick his approach shot close to back right hole locations.

Seriously, Ran is unmatched in his presentation of a golf course through pictures. The amount of thought behind each photo used and the analysis employed is brilliant. Thanks for a wonderful tour!

[Jason Topp]

This is an excellent write up but I am not nearly enamoured with this course as Ran.  I have played it three times from 6300, 6600 and 6900 yards and, while I found the concepts of the holes to be sound, I have some criticisms:

I thought that the course had so much width that it rendered many of the hazards relatively meaningless.  A centerline bunker on a 90 yard wide fairway means that the player has the option of two different 40 yard wide fairways to chose from. 

I think the green contours are toned down on this course, causing them to be much less interesting than other Coore/Crenshaw courses I have played.

The disadvantage of having four short par 4's is that the yardage is offset by four very long par 4's, which leaves little opportunity for normal midlength holes.  I found a lack of variety in that my approach shot tends to either be a 3 wood or a half wedge, without many opportunities for midiron shots.  This issue is the opposite of most courses which tend to consist of all midiron approach shots.

By the third round, I found the short par 4's to dictate a layup off the tee for my game.  The positives associated with hitting driver were not sufficient to take a risk.

Finally, it was at this course that I first felt that Coore/Crenshaw had somewhat lapsed into a template type approach to designing golf holes.  I felt like I had played many of the holes before.  It could be the tractor seat/bunker green at 10 that put me over the edge there.

These criticisms should be taken in context.  I found much to like about the course.  It is my favorite setting I have experienced in the desert - with long views and no housing.  The par threes are outstanding.  I particularly like the 9th and the long one with a hump on the right side.  The course is an extremely pleasant walk which is a treat, particularly in Arizona. 

The course is one of my favorites in the state but I would never consider it one of the best public courses in the country.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Ran

I look forward to the Desert Forest profile. 

[Tom_Doak]

Ran:

Just curious as to how many Arizona desert courses you have played in your vast experience.  You sound like a kid with a new toy, and that seems to be the experience of many golfers who go to Arizona the first or second time.  However, I think in general that the more desert courses one sees, the more they all start to look alike.

Desert Forest still seems different than most.  I haven't been back there since Saguaro opened, so I don't know whether it distances itself from the rest or not.  And though I trust Bill Schulz's opinion on many things, isn't everybody a homer for their own home course?

[Andy Troeger]

While I put Forest Highlands Canyon at #1 in Arizona, I do think We-Ko-Pa Saguaro is the best course in the Phoenix metro area, and I would argue that its not all that close. As Tom mentions, golf in the desert is usually viewed in different ways by guests and locals. For guests I think the novelty of desert golf makes it really appealing, but once you've played 20-30 courses (probably fewer really) they certainly blend together and the penal nature of most desert golf makes it start to lose some of its appeal. Saguaro stands out in part because the width (and walkability) allows for golf to be played in basically its "normal" form in a beautiful setting. Its not a perfect course, but there's certainly enough interest out there to make it very appealing.

I've said this frequently, but I still think Desert Forest gets a pass for being narrow and penal. The split-fairway 7th is wonderful and the greens are interesting, but keeping the ball in play is tough and recovery requires a lucky break. If nothing else, Saguaro and Desert Forest do show that not every desert course has to look/play the same, even if I agree with Tom's comment that most of them do.

[Rob Rigg]

Ran,

A fantastic write up of one of my favorite courses in the Valley!

Having lived here for a little over a year and a half I have quickly become tired of the usual desert fare. Saguaro and Desert Forest are my favorite public and private in the valley because they are so different, due to the use of natural contours and, in the case of Saguaro, strategic bunkering on flatter portions of the course to create serious interest. They are also both VERY walkable which is unusual in this land of housing developments and cart ball.

If only all of the desert courses, especially those in North Scottsdale, had made more use of natural topography in the spirit of the Sand Belt.

Looking fwd to the DF review - I'm a bit biased there!

[Kyle Henderson]

I've made a single pilgrimage to the PHX/Scottsdale area. To me this is the land of the "Doak 5s and 6s." The Saguaro and Desert Highlands stood a bit taller than the rest of the courses I saw.

The Saguaro has some lovely contours in and around the greens that are virtually negated by the velco-like Bermuda grasses. There are also a handful of uncharacteristically bland holes (e.g. #3) that detract from an otherwise excellent course. It's not Coore or Crenshaw's best, but it's miles better than many of the rest.

[Bill_McBride]

I've made a single pilgrimage to the PHX/Scottsdale area. To me this is the land of the "Doak 5s and 6s." The Saguaro and Desert Highlands stood a bit taller than the rest of the courses I saw.

The Saguaro has some lovely contours in and around the greens that are virtually negated by the velco-like Bermuda grasses. There are also a handful of uncharacteristically bland holes (e.g. #3) that detract from an otherwise excellent course. It's not Coore or Crenshaw's best, but it's miles better than many of the rest.

5s and 6s, or 3s and 4s?

[Kyle Henderson]

5s and 6s, or 3s and 4s?

I probably saw mostly top tier stuff for that area... Wouldn't you give Talking Stick North better than a 4?

[Tommy Williamsen]

Last April I went to Scottsdale to play four courses.  One was Saguaro.  I was hoping to be blown away.  I was not.  It is an excellent course, to be sure, but not the world beater I had hoped for.  I liked the bunkering but didn't think the rest of the course stood out.

[John Mayhugh]

Thanks for the profile.  Spending 15-20 hours on it is an impressive commitment, and it shows.  Really well done, as always.

I've been to the Phoenix area several times, and I thought that Saguaro really stood out from the other desert courses I've played.  I enjoy visiting the area, but haven't been there since 2007 (about the time I started getting "educated" on this site).  It was my first C&C course, and in some ways it's the most memorable one for me due to contrast from the neighbors. I would like to play there again and see what I think of the course.  The profile sure makes me want to.